Question concerning curl for finding a conservative force field

In summary, the conversation discusses the principles of conservative force fields and how they can be proven using partial derivatives. The use of f, g, and h to represent the partial derivatives of force components is explained, and it is noted that the statements can be jointly expressed using a determinant.
  • #1
sleventh
64
0
Hello all,
I understand the fact that the principles
LaTeX Code: F= \\nabla \\phi .

LaTeX Code: \\nabla \\times F = 0 .

must apply in order for a force field to be conservative however what i don't get is why showing:

LaTeX Code: f_y= g_x, f_z= h_x, g_z= h_y
where subscripts are what you are taking the derivative with respect to.

is a means to prove the above laws are in effect. i assume it has to do with the fact that subtracting the partial derivatives will give you zero. thank you very much for any help

sleventh
 
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  • #2
You should specify what [tex]f[/tex], [tex]g[/tex] and [tex]h[/tex] are. It does look like you're using the fact that you can jointly express the two statements as

[tex]\nabla\times\nabla\phi = \mathrm{det}\begin{pmatrix}\hat{\mathbf{i}} && \hat{\mathbf{j}} && \hat{\mathbf{k}}\\\delta_x && \delta_y && \delta_z\\ \delta_x\phi && \delta_y\phi && \delta_z\phi\end{pmatrix}[/tex],
meaning, for example,
[tex]
\hat{\mathbf{i}}(\delta_y\delta_z - \delta_z\delta_y)\phi=0,
[/tex]
but not knowing [tex]f[/tex], [tex]g[/tex] and [tex]h[/tex], I can't comment further.
 
  • #3
oh haha that should have been obvious thank you very much that clears everything up perfectly
 

1. What is curl and how does it relate to finding a conservative force field?

Curl is a mathematical operation that describes the rotation or circulation of a vector field. In the context of finding a conservative force field, curl is used to determine if the field is irrotational, meaning that it has a curl of zero. This is important because conservative forces are those that can be expressed as the gradient of a scalar potential, and irrotational fields have this property.

2. How do you calculate the curl of a vector field?

The curl of a vector field can be calculated using the curl operator, which involves taking the partial derivatives of the field with respect to each variable and combining them in a specific way. In three-dimensional Cartesian coordinates, the curl of a vector field F = (Fx, Fy, Fz) is given by the following formula: ∇ x F = (∂Fz/∂y - ∂Fy/∂z, ∂Fx/∂z - ∂Fz/∂x, ∂Fy/∂x - ∂Fx/∂y).

3. What does it mean if the curl of a vector field is non-zero?

If the curl of a vector field is non-zero, it means that the field is rotational, meaning that the vector field has a non-zero amount of rotation at each point. This is significant because it indicates that the field is not conservative and cannot be expressed as the gradient of a scalar potential. In other words, there is no conservative force associated with the field.

4. How is the concept of conservative forces important in physics?

The concept of conservative forces is important in physics because it allows us to simplify many physical systems and make calculations more manageable. When a force is conservative, it means that the work done by that force only depends on the starting and ending points of the path, and not on the specific path taken. This allows us to use the concept of potential energy and make use of mathematical techniques such as the gradient and curl to analyze and solve problems.

5. What are some real-life examples of conservative force fields?

Some real-life examples of conservative force fields include gravitational fields, electric fields, and magnetic fields. These fields are conservative because they can be expressed as the gradient of a scalar potential and have a curl of zero. This allows us to make predictions and calculations about the behavior of objects in these fields using mathematical tools such as potential energy and the curl operator.

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