Brain vs. heart: Personality traits and organ transplants

[drizzle]

this may not be the right forum, but I guessed so, reading the thread posted by Rex S titled as “Can there be Artificial Consciousness and Emotion? ” reminds me of an article I read last year, it was about heart transplant, I was thinking of it a couple of weeks ago, and thought I would’ve post it here but I was doubtful about it, but seriously have a look at it, here’s the link
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-558271/Can-really-transplant-human-soul.html"


it basically shows that transplant patient change their personality and start to act like the donor, taking on some of their characteristics.

[edit by Ivan: Fringe pseudoscience deleted]

my question here is;
does the consciousness [the mind] connected most to the brain or the heart?

is there any other studies done on this? and what do you guys think!

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The only way to properly address this claim here is to ask if there is any reliable evidence that transplant patients take on characterstics asociated with the organ donors.

It would not be appropriate to speculate about mechanisms to account for a claim without first showing the claim to be legitimate. In other words: No theories allowed. Only anecdotal reports from respectable sources, or related studies found in published journals, are appropriate.

 

[drizzle]

The only way to properly address this claim here is to ask if there is any reliable evidence that transplant patients take on characterstics asociated with the organ donors...

I'm not sure if you read it all, but the link I post has these other links [two cases];

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...cken-My-daughter-said-I-walked-like-man.html"


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-marries-donors-widow-kills-exactly-way.html"

also from the last one;

Scientists say there are more than 70 documented cases of transplant patients having personality changes as they take on some of the characteristics of the donor.

I would also like to see if there are other cases. and Ivan Seeking, I really want to understand this and how could the mind be attached to the heart or you could say controlled by the heart holding the memories and other belongs of a person's personality..I'm sure there are studies on this and theories, won't you think so?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The daily mail is a marginal source at best. If anyone can find the documented cases indicated, feel free to post them. However, we can only address the question of evidence. Any theories will have to wait.

 

[Moonbear]

1) The heart is a pump. That's it.
2) Organ donations are anonymous, so how would one know if the recipient's personality matched that of the donor?
3) Some change in personality might be expected, since recipients of transplants are saved from the brink of death, and just might choose to live their lives differently after the transplant than before.

 

[drizzle]

1) The heart is a pump. That's it.

we all know that, [despite (that's it), we don't really know yet, it might be a multi
functional organ!]

2) Organ donations are anonymous, so how would one know if the recipient's personality matched that of the donor?

did you read the previous links [the two cases]?

3) Some change in personality might be expected, since recipients of transplants are saved from the brink of death, and just might choose to live their lives differently after the transplant than before.

you mean in a way that looks like the donor's personality!?

 

[CEL]

Several books and movies used this idea. Return to Me with David Duchovny and Minnie Drver tels the story of a widower that falls in love with the woman, who received his dead wife's heart.
Transplant recipients, that know those fiction stories may be influenced by them and change their personalities to match that of the donors.

 

[mrspeedybob]

There would almost certainly be some transfer of traits. Suppose Bob is a gifted athlete, his genetics make him that way, as a result of his genetics and his lifestyle he has a strong heart. He gets hit by a bus.

Ed is a lazy bum. He eats too much junk food and eventually has a heart attack. He gets Bob's heart. Now that he has a geneticly superior pump in his chest he has more energy. This causes him to have more ambition and he becomes a hard working and successful business man.

His friends and family percieve a complete change iin personality.

 

[Femme_physics]

1) the heart is a pump. That's it.
2) organ donations are anonymous, so how would one know if the recipient's personality matched that of the donor?
3) some change in personality might be expected, since recipients of transplants are saved from the brink of death, and just might choose to live their lives differently after the transplant than before.

qft.

 

[Isaacsname]

Just out of curiousity, have you guys seen or heard of Dr. Bruce Lipton's " Where Mind and Matter Meet " series on youtube ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB81L9zGLjE&feature=related

 

[nismaratwork]

This... is... a... myth...

Which has actually been adressed in a previous thread, although I forget the name.

Beyond that, what Moonbear said. Sorry Drizzle, I just don't buy this, which seems to be a matter of supersitition and uncertainty as to the role of organs.

To her list I'd add: your heart is transplanted... meaning your heart is STOPPED, and mechanically bypassed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postperfusion_syndrome

 

[sean1202]

It was a common belief in ancient times that emotions and personality come from the heart and we see this transferred into modern culture with terms such as "I feel it in my heart" or how we use a heart as a symbol for love...things like that, it doesn't surprise me that a few people might be biased into thinking this way when someone gets a heart transplant.

 

[Gabe21]

statistically speaking having a hundred or so of these transplant patients show some kind of personality change isn't shocking if you consider the thousands of patients that get transplants each week. the probability of the patient changing to be more like the donor would be more of an outlier than anything else. in my opinion its just a coincidence that hasn't been statistically backed up.

i would assume the person willing to give up their organs would be more selfless than someone who wouldn't. and i assume someone who has just gotten a second chance at life would live a little more selfless also.

 

[nismaratwork]

statistically speaking having a hundred or so of these transplant patients show some kind of personality change isn't shocking if you consider the thousands of patients that get transplants each week. the probability of the patient changing to be more like the donor would be more of an outlier than anything else. in my opinion its just a coincidence that hasn't been statistically backed up.

i would assume the person willing to give up their organs would be more selfless than someone who wouldn't. and i assume someone who has just gotten a second chance at life would live a little more selfless also.

I was with you until the last paragraph... I don't know that it's selfless if, like me, you see your dead body as a husk. It can be a non-decision for some, and agonizing for others... quite a range.

Still, I vote for "pump head" and stress/trauma before an "infestation by devils!"

 

[Gabe21]

the last paragraph is just an instance where a correlation might occur. its just chance but there are people who might see something else in it.

 

[nismaratwork]

the last paragraph is just an instance where a correlation might occur. its just chance but there are people who might see something else in it.

Fair enough.

 

[Pythagorean]

Personality changes are sequelae that arise from both social pressures and the biological stress on the system; your body has to spend resources integrating a new heart into the signaling chain.

There are many practical psychiatric, social, and ethical problems which accompany heart transplantation. These include pre- and postoperative anxiety and depressive conditions, post-operative delirium, and social and family dysfunctional syndromes. This paper reviews the literature critically in the following five areas: pre- transplant evaluation, coping with surgery, postoperative sequelae, rehabilitation, and management. Although most recipients have a good outcome from the physical and psychiatric points of view, a substantial minority experience family conflicts and sexual dysfunction after surgery. An average of 45% of patients from all studies returned to full-time employment. The distinctive role and contribution of the psychiatrist on the transplant team is discussed and important areas for future research are outlined.

Psychiatric aspects of heart transplantation
Br J Psychiatry. 1993 Sep ;163 :285-92 8401955 Cit:47
FM Mai
Department of Psychiatry, Ottawa General Hospital, Ontario, Canada.

Fortynine heart transplant recipients were evaluated during the first weeks after orthotopic heart transplantation. Using the ICD-10 (International Classification of Diseases-10th revision) criteria, we studied the incidence of anxiety disorders as well as 17 demographic and medical factors potentially influencing the probability of their occurrence. A smaller 36-person group was evaluated using standard psychopathologic scales for anxiety and mood disorders. Cox regression analysis was used to specify which of 11 demographic and medical factors influenced the time to occurrence of the first episode of a mental disorder. Anxiety episodes occurred in 25 patients, depressive episodes in 27, (hypo)manic in 3, and 12 manifested a slightly elevated mood. The risk of occurrence of anxiety and mood disorders was highest during the first 3 weeks after OHT. "False alarms," namely, calls to the clinic not ending up in transplantation, and coexisting illnesses were related to higher incidences and earlier appearance of anxiety and mood disorders. The risk of occurrence of an anxiety syndrome was greater among older patients. Anxiety syndromes were manifested earlier in patients who underwent transplantation due to ischemic cardiomyopathy than in patients with heart failure caused by other factors. A greater number of false alarms, of long-lasting hospitalizations, and of low mean cyclosporine levels were risk factors for depressive episodes.

The occurence of mood and anxiety disorders in heart transplant recipients.
Transplant Proc. 2009 Oct;41(8):3214-8.
Pudlo R, Piegza M, Zakliczyński M, Zembala M.
Department of Psychiatry, Medical University of Silesia, Poland ul Pyskowicka 49, 42-612

From the earliest days of transplantation, research has contributed to our knowledge of the psychosocial sequelae associated with the outcomes of the procedure. The purpose of this review is to describe the social adaptation literature for heart, lung, and heart-lung recipients. Social adaptation refers to employment and performance of social roles and responsibilities. Employment research focused on vocational rehabilitation, physical health restoration, and return to work. Social roles and responsibilities research focused on social roles, family relationships, social support, and psychosocial adjustment. Predictors, interventions, and their associations with outcomes are discussed.

Social Adaptation After Cardiothoracic Transplantation: A Review of the Literature
Journal of Cardiovascular Nursing:
September/October 2005 - Volume 20 - Issue 5S - p S67-S73