Science or Finance: Picking a Career Path

[nucleargirl]

Hi, basically I'm trying to find a job but indecided as to where I want to go.

I've been applying to Finance stuff in the City cos the pay is good... and I think its pretty glamourous to work there... but I've not been having much success, probably cos my background is science and I have no business/finance experience whatsoever. And am not very numerate, and not THAT interested in business/money...

So I'm thinking maybe its better to stick to science cos that's what I know. I do enjoy learning about it, but I HATE lab work... but it would be so cool to discover something new in science. But to discover without lab work? seems unlikely...

I don't know what to do!

My dream (as stupid as it sounds) is to do something amazing with my life! haha. like something worthwhile, something that contributes to society. so science fits that pretty well...
but in my past experiences of research, they've all been a lot of effort for a long time, but no reward. what if I never get lucky? and what if I go into science (like start a phd) and find out that I don't like it anymore?

 

[BenTheMan]

I've been applying to Finance stuff in the City cos the pay is good... and I think its pretty glamourous to work there...

These are probably the two of the worst reasons to work in finance.

and not THAT interested in business/money...

There's lots of jobs that aren't finance, where you can still make money.

So I'm thinking maybe its better to stick to science cos that's what I know. I do enjoy learning about it, but I HATE lab work... but it would be so cool to discover something new in science. But to discover without lab work? seems unlikely...

What's your background?

Why don't you try to do theory?

 

[nucleargirl]

What's your background?

Why don't you try to do theory?

Thanks for the comment.

So I have a Bachelor's degree in biology, have done a few months of lab research and also worked in a biotech company. But I didn't really like either cos research was fruitless and working in a production lab was horrible.
You know, I just don't know if I am the type to succeed in science! For the following reasons:
1. I don't think I am very smart: I'm not very sharp - it takes me some time to understand papers.
2. I'm not very dedicated - I become enthusiastic very easily, but also get bored easily - I don't know if I can research one topic for years... I have no perseverance!
3. I am clumsy and scared of chemicals/autoclave/liquid nitrogen/bunsen burners...

Theory... (like theoretical science? that doesn't involve physical experiments?) I dunno, I'm not very numerate...

sorry this is so lame! oh man...

 

[lisab]

Thanks for the comment.

So I have a Bachelor's degree in biology, have done a few months of lab research and also worked in a biotech company. But I didn't really like either cos research was fruitless and working in a production lab was horrible.
You know, I just don't know if I am the type to succeed in science! For the following reasons:
1. I don't think I am very smart: I'm not very sharp - it takes me some time to understand papers.
2. I'm not very dedicated - I become enthusiastic very easily, but also get bored easily - I don't know if I can research one topic for years... I have no perseverance!
3. I am clumsy and scared of chemicals/autoclave/liquid nitrogen/bunsen burners...

Theory... (like theoretical science? that doesn't involve physical experiments?) I dunno, I'm not very numerate...

sorry this is so lame! oh man...

What about sales or customer service, for a technical company? Not exactly glamorous or amazing, but it will pay the bills until you decide what direction you want to go.

 

[nucleargirl]

What about sales or customer service, for a technical company? Not exactly glamorous or amazing, but it will pay the bills until you decide what direction you want to go.

Yeah, that was what I was applying to - admin stuff, but have not got any replies, guess its pretty competitive right now.

 

[twofish-quant]

1. I don't think I am very smart: I'm not very sharp - it takes me some time to understand papers.
2. I'm not very dedicated - I become enthusiastic very easily, but also get bored easily - I don't know if I can research one topic for years... I have no perseverance!

If you want something badly enough, you can change. I think the thing that you have to figure out is what do you want, and if you are willing to put in the price and sweat you need to get what you really want, whatever that is. If you aren't smart, become smart. If you aren't dedicated, then become dedicated.

 

[nucleargirl]

If you want something badly enough, you can change. I think the thing that you have to figure out is what do you want, and if you are willing to put in the price and sweat you need to get what you really want, whatever that is. If you aren't smart, become smart. If you aren't dedicated, then become dedicated.

The problem is that I don't want anything badly enough...
I want a job, but I don't feel passionate about any career...

 

[nucleargirl]

Update:

I'm worried now. everyone is worried about me, and I don't like it!
I was thinking maybe I should just do a phd... but I've read that scientific research is more of a lifestyle than a job, and it can be very depressing sometimes, and you are on your own in a lab most of the time, and because it is competitive, a lot of time and effort are needed to do well.
I don't know, I like science, but I don't know if I can do all that! what if I can't do it?
I would like to be able to talk to people in my job... and I think I get depressed easily enough as it is!

 

[Rika]

Do you have a hobby?

 

[nucleargirl]

Do you have a hobby?

mmm... not really... (thats really sad!)
ok some things I like (probs even more sad)
I like reading... yeah I DO like reading! like books! and magazines :) I was reading fiction, but now I'm trying to read more about biology cos I have forgotten all I'd learnt: currently reading selfish gene :)
I like travelling, but haven't been to THAT many places, but I like to experience new cultures.
I like... I was trying to learn music instruments (guitar) but didnt get anywhere with it - too hard!
hobbies... I don't do anything really consistently for it to be a hobby...
I like cooking! and I think I make nice food! but my parents don't like most of the things I make... I was thinking about tea shops, but have no money to open a restaurant, and have to get up early... and working in a kitchen... all men... scary... not good at cutting... clumsy... basically not really feeling it is for me.
I like animals - watching them, they're pretty! I was thinking about zoo work/ecology... but think it requires more physical power than I have... and only found voluntary positions available...

 

[Rika]

mmm... not really... (thats really sad!)
ok some things I like (probs even more sad)
I like reading... yeah I DO like reading! like books! and magazines :) I was reading fiction, but now I'm trying to read more about biology cos I have forgotten all I'd learnt: currently reading selfish gene :)
I like travelling, but haven't been to THAT many places, but I like to experience new cultures.

Reading, writing and meeting people (taditional job for liberal arts majors) vs sitting in lab/in front of PC and calculating (science majors job). It's not true. There are jobs that require background in science even if you don't sit in lab. With your background you can work in technical sales in biotech company or get MBA instead of PhD and try to become executive. Science journalism, high school teacher are other options.

I like animals - watching them, they're pretty! I was thinking about zoo work/ecology... but think it requires more physical power than I have... and only found voluntary positions available...

What about being vet or breeder?

 

[epenguin]

I don't think I am very smart

You sound suited to a job in government or the European Union.

 

[nucleargirl]

You sound suited to a job in government or the European Union.

haha I'm not good enough at sucking up to do that!

 

[nucleargirl]

Reading, writing and meeting people (taditional job for liberal arts majors) vs sitting in lab/in front of PC and calculating (science majors job). It's not true. There are jobs that require background in science even if you don't sit in lab. With your background you can work in technical sales in biotech company or get MBA instead of PhD and try to become executive. Science journalism, high school teacher are other options.

What about being vet or breeder?

yeah, in my last job I was doing kinda science-related admin stuff... I do like the talking to ppl part and not being totally submerged in stats/experiments. I guess management jobs might be ok... but... man... its so stupid, but I don't think it would fulfill my... ambition? as stupid at it sounds with my current situation. do you guys get that? like you want to be doing something really worthwhile and won't be satisfied doing something you consider not important? like you don't just want to be able to make ends meet and make a living or enjoy time out of work only? (for me worthwhile means something that's going to remain for a long time, or affects people, like medicine, like science, not like advertising, sales... I don't know why I think like this, its just how I feel.) I want to do a job that I really enjoy and think is worthwhile... stupid high standards! so this makes things difficult!

vet... I'm not that great at handling animals, I like watching them and all, but don't know about hands on...

 

[Norman.Galois]

Hey!

I'm coming from a similar path but I have a mathematics and accounting background (accounting I did years and years ago). I finished my M.Sc. in Number Theory (not finance related at all).

I was going to take any job but decided to move back home and do more study. I want a finance job but the reality is... you won't get one without any kind of credential.

Note: If you want to work in a bank, all you need is high school. So technically you're overqualified now.

I signed up for the CFA exam (Level 1). Crazy hard but once you pass Level 1... that is huge. Without a CFA, you can't really get anywhere. If you never did accounting, or economics, then I don't recommend signing up for the December exam. Sign up for June and start studying today.

 

[nucleargirl]

update:
talked to my much more with it friends, and they said I might be being a bit too picky - the way they chose careers was not what would be the ideal career, but what, within what they can do, they would hate the least.

 

[nucleargirl]

Hey!

I'm coming from a similar path but I have a mathematics and accounting background (accounting I did years and years ago). I finished my M.Sc. in Number Theory (not finance related at all).

I was going to take any job but decided to move back home and do more study. I want a finance job but the reality is... you won't get one without any kind of credential.

Note: If you want to work in a bank, all you need is high school. So technically you're overqualified now.

I signed up for the CFA exam (Level 1). Crazy hard but once you pass Level 1... that is huge. Without a CFA, you can't really get anywhere. If you never did accounting, or economics, then I don't recommend signing up for the December exam. Sign up for June and start studying today.

hey,
I wish I had your energy and drive! how do you keep motivated? My problem (one of them anyway) is I know what I need to do, but can't force myself to do it - such a bum. I know its cos I'm lucky and am not being forced on to the streets, but that's no excuse.

Yeah see you did maths which is more related to finance than biology, and you seem to know you want to work in finance. I don't have any finance/business background, and I am not sure if I want to work there. The main attractions I see in finance/banking/managment consultancy work is: varied work, challenging work, travel opportunities, money, and glamour (I still think its cool to wear a suit and walk around like you own everything!)
But, is that a good enough reason to go into a job where I would give up all I learned and be competing with ppl with 10 more years of experience than me?

Or should I stay in science where I am used to, and try to make something of myself? The downsides to working in science is: I am terrified of labs - I had some bad experiences and now am scared of the autoclave, the liquid nitrogen, centrifuge, chemicals, bunsen burners...
how am I going to deal with that? and I don't want to work alone in a lab all my life.side note: I read ur other post, and I worked a couple weeks in a telephone caller role (not call centre tho) and they basically gave us notes on what to say in pretty much any situation! so what the customer said, we would have an answer. I found it pretty difficult despite that, so I guess just general tips: we were told to sit upright - don't slouch, smile when you are talking, sound energetic and happy, refer to the person by their name, and don't make people wait too long.

 

[nucleargirl]

Update:

hi guys!
I went to the careers adviser today, and basically she saw that I was not commercial in anyway, and so said I should not apply to finance stuff cos I won't last long there. and I agree with her. so, no more finance/consultancy for my life! I have decided! :)

So now I'm looking into either academia, or grad scheme with some large company like loreal, p&g etc.
Any advice will be greatly appreciated!

 

[loseyourname]

You sound like me. I changed from a biology major to a biology minor because I got bored with all the lab work and ended up working in finance.

Stick with science.

 

[nucleargirl]

You sound like me. I changed from a biology major to a biology minor because I got bored with all the lab work and ended up working in finance.

Stick with science.

thanks! so do you wish you'd stayed in biology? or do you enjoy finance?
I mean, would you do anything differently if you went back in time?

 

[loseyourname]

I'm a military officer working in finance, so my experience isn't the same as what you'd get in commercial finance, but I largely say stick with science because I think the world will be a better place when our most intelligent people quit getting diverted into finance. I'm a little cynical about the whole "quant" revolution, which I think proved to be a huge brain drain taking American engineering talent and putting it to work for Wall Street hedge funds. Plus, I grew up in Orange County, where it seemed like 90% of the people were either mortgage brokers or real estate agents. Again, plenty of smart people that could have been doing good things for the world if they weren't too busy skimming off the top of the subprime mortage housing bubble.

 

[nucleargirl]

I'm a military officer working in finance, so my experience isn't the same as what you'd get in commercial finance, but I largely say stick with science because I think the world will be a better place when our most intelligent people quit getting diverted into finance. I'm a little cynical about the whole "quant" revolution, which I think proved to be a huge brain drain taking American engineering talent and putting it to work for Wall Street hedge funds. Plus, I grew up in Orange County, where it seemed like 90% of the people were either mortgage brokers or real estate agents. Again, plenty of smart people that could have been doing good things for the world if they weren't too busy skimming off the top of the subprime mortage housing bubble.

yeah, money's not a HUGE drive for me, so I can't see myself working 90 hours a week or doing something a bit dodgy to get rich. and business just doesn't excite me - the careers advisor asked me if I read the business pages in the paper, and I'm more like a skip through it to read the gossip pages kind of person.

 

[epenguin]

My guess is it would be negative for you to force yourself into doing something you do not like or feel talented for - laboratory all day, 5 days a week.

There are other jobs, some making use of scientific background and sensibility. Your uni doesn't organise careers days?

You have a background in biology. A suggestion I might make (to make up for my nasty one :tongue2:) is find your biochemistry department or library and look through the professional society's journal 'The Biochemist'. It doesn't matter if you don't consider yourself a biochemist - it collaborates with other biological societies, it is just the biggest and most well-off. There is usually an article about careers. And publicity about careers events, though in September you may just have missed some. There used to be a series there called 'A day in the life of...' usually by someone who had gone into something not strictly the scientific research profession. Without spending too much time you could seek out relevant articles of the last couple of years or so.

(I can't say the chances are high in a biochemistry department of meeting the kind of guy you go for, since these are physicists, but you probably know that already. Maybe a biophysicist would be better than nothing? Or even a biophysical chemist :yuck: if you are desperate.)

 

[Locrian]

That word “finance”. A low level underwriter at a small bank works in finance. So does a front desk trader at a large investment firm. There are lots of computer programmers who work in finance, and there are salespeople selling investments to consumers who work in finance. I also work in finance as an actuarial analyst.

Yea, Wall Street is associated with finance. I value what WS does, but it doesn’t represent all of finance, despite what the public seems to think. Underwriters who make small business loans also work in finance. Non profit companies that help provide health insurance to the poor or cooperatives that provide life insurance to people with dangerous jobs are also financial organizations. Providing warrantees for multimillion dollar construction equipment is a financial activity, and it’s not anything like structuring CLO’s.

Jobs in finance can be very different. The pay, the hours, the difficulty, the job outlook and the skills used all vary from one to another. Some of them I would enjoy and some I would despise. I’m not Futurama’s 80’s business dude; I’m a terrible salesperson, and I’m more interested in analyzing the bottom line than maximizing it. That adviser would have probably told me to give it up too, though I’m too stubborn to have listened.

“Finance” isn’t a career path. It’s a very large number of different career paths.

 

[nucleargirl]

thanks for the advice epenguin. I'll check it out.
as for meeting guys... man, I'm bordering on giving up :p

 

[Locrian]

I think the world will be a better place when our most intelligent people quit getting diverted into finance.

Maybe. Maybe not.

Is making incremental improvements to video card processors more valuable to society than making sure widows of police officers are financially cared for? I love video games, so I really appreciate video cards, but this one seems a no brainer to me.

The reality is most people most of the time have little control over how much good their work does. How much good would I do the world working for a defense contractor in military research? Well, that depends on what exactly I researched, how it was used, and whom it was used on, most of which I have little control over. How much good does someone who loans money to small businesses do for the world? Well, that depends . . . you get the idea.

This popular story where great scientists committed to creating the perfect society are sucked away to investment banks to become moustache twirling monopoly men seems to ignore the realities of both fields and does a disservice to the way our economy and society operates.

 

[mal4mac]

Why not be a biology teacher? No? Maybe read "Avoid Boring People" by James Watson (yes that James Watson...) it's a kind of biography with lots of fun career advice for biologists and other science types.

 

[epenguin]

For what it may be worth - long shot, costs, short notice http://www.nature.com/natureconferences/careerexpo/index.html

Worth look at Naturejobs.com online free.

 

[nucleargirl]

thanks guys! the nature exhibition is actually free, I might go.
teaching... maybe lecturing, but I can't see myself being a school teacher really. Not THAT fond of kids...

 

[loseyourname]

Maybe. Maybe not.

Is making incremental improvements to video card processors more valuable to society than making sure widows of police officers are financially cared for? I love video games, so I really appreciate video cards, but this one seems a no brainer to me.

I think that, on net, more of the benefits created by professionals working in financial fields accrue to the professionals themselves than in the sciences, at least in basic research, where huge benefits accrue to third parties. This is the reason we publicly fund basic research.

But I'm not trying to be Oliver Stone "we used to build things in this country and now we just put our hands in other people's pockets." I don't think financial work is bad. Like I said, I work in finance. I just think the financial services sector of our economy is bloated and the scientific research sector is too small. Orange County could have used more coastal ecologists and fewer mortgage brokers. Again, this isn't to say there is anything inherently wrong about working in finance or that mortgage brokers don't provide a valuable service.

 

[twofish-quant]

Yea, Wall Street is associated with finance. I value what WS does, but it doesn’t represent all of finance, despite what the public seems to think.

I work on Wall Street, and one reason I feel good about what I do is because I've seen the huge damage that can happen when people do what I do, but do it badly. Bad finance can destroy the world and almost did. Good finance causes things to "just work."

 

[twofish-quant]

I just think the financial services sector of our economy is bloated and the scientific research sector is too small.

Personally, I sort of agree, but to underfund science is a decision that US voters have made, and I'm pessimistic that this is going to change without a basic change in the priorities of US society.

One of the things that I'd like to do is to get the President of China to give a major speech saying "China has decided to colonize Mars." At that point that will hopefully give the US a kick in the pants.

 

[twofish-quant]

I largely say stick with science because I think the world will be a better place when our most intelligent people quit getting diverted into finance.

I'm a physics Ph.D. working on Wall Street, and I disagree a lot. I *do* think the world would be better if we were working on Mars missions, rather than on finance *BUT* if you self-sacrifice to make that happen, you'll find that 1) you'll mess up your own life and 2) you really won't get anything done.

If you go into academia, it eat you up and spit you out. If you go into finance, you will get money, you will get an understanding of how the world works, and you can use that understanding to change things.

One problem with science is the "second Einstein" problem. One Einstein is going to change the world, so it's a bummer if you are the second Einstein. Finance has a lot of problems that require lots of warm bodies.

I'm a little cynical about the whole "quant" revolution, which I think proved to be a huge brain drain taking American engineering talent and putting it to work for Wall Street hedge funds.

I'm a cynical idealist. There were a lot of incompetent finance people on Wall Street, but what makes me feel good is that there are competent people here, and I just am horrified at how bad things could have gotten if there were *ONLY* incompetent people running finance.

Personally, I think you *NEED* some of the the smartest and wisest people working in finance, because if finance falls apart, so does everything else.

Again, plenty of smart people that could have been doing good things for the world if they weren't too busy skimming off the top of the subprime mortage housing bubble.

Some of us were involved in keeping our firms out of mortgage housing bubble so when things fell apart, there were still some people left standing. Yes, things were bad, but if you don't have some intelligent and competent people in finance, you'll just have the idiots run things, and we've seen how bad that can get.

Honestly, I really do think that I've done more good for the world doing what I did than I could have done being a physics professor, because I help keep things from getting a lot worse than they were. And also it feels good to be in the center of history.

I think we should colonize Mars, but that is just not going to happen if the finance people mess up and we enter a Second Great Depression.

 

[twofish-quant]

One other thing. I think that talking about "choosing" science over finance misses the point that for a lot of us there is no choice. I'd be perfectly happy to work as a physics professor for a third the salary I'm making in finance, but I'm not getting any job offers.

Why am I not getting any job offers? Well no one is willing to fund a professorship that I'm eligible for, and one of the reasons I ended up in finance was that after I figured out that much of the world revolves around money, I figured that it would be a good idea to learn about how money works.

One curious thing is that people whose main goal in life is feel rich and successful then you should probably stay away from Wall Street, since if you don't have your head screwed on straight, you'll likely mess up your own life there if you are lucky, and if you are not then you'll mess up everyone else's. One thing that surprises people is 1) how poor you can feel on Wall Street and 2) how poor you can be on Wall Street. For 1), if you make $350K, but you are constantly around people that make millions, you are going to end up feeling like a pauper. $350K might sound like a lot of money, and it is a lot of money, but you'll find if you walk down Fifth Avenue that you have huge numbers of stores that sell stuff that you can't even begin to afford, and if walk in midtown on Friday and Saturday evenings you'll see the streets full of black limousines talking people from apartments you couldn't possibly afford to restaurants and clubs that won't like you in even assuming that you could afford them, which you probably couldn't.

If you try to deal with it by living a lifestyle that you can't afford, you are going to broke pretty quickly. If you make $1M/year, but you are spending $2M/year you are doing to be broke pretty quickly, and it's surprising (or may be it isn't) how many people that make crazy salaries, end up quite poor and miserable.