Fluids (Through an IV) Question

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In summary, a group of emergency department workers discussed the fastest method of giving a patient fluid through an IV. One nurse suggested connecting two IV lines to the patient at the same time, but an experiment showed that using a single line and changing the bag when it ran dry was faster. The reason for this may be increased turbulence and decreased flow rate when two lines are connected.
  • #71
Andy Resnick said:
Ah- I should have realized I was dealing with an engineer. I was able to get oriented with Vennard and Street.

Look up the three-reservoir problem. The flow rates add- the flow out of the nozzle Q_3 is equal to the flow in from both funnels: Q_1 + Q_2 = Q_3.

http://cee.engr.ucdavis.edu/faculty/bombardelli/Three_reservoir_problem.pdf [Broken]

http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/staff/david.d.apsley/hydraulics/threeres.htm

http://excelcalculations.blogspot.com/2011/05/three-reservoir-problem.html

And we are dealing with a biophysicist. What is your point? Fact: you clearly can't see when you are mistaken and you seem to hold engineers in low regard. Good day.
 
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  • #72
Andy Resnick said:
Marcusl,
Cjl and sams_rhythm, your attitude is deplorable and you should be very thankful that you are not my students.
Hilarious.
One can be dead wrong, it's OK, even being a professor, but being wrong and brag about it ...

BTW, very informative thread, thanks cjl and the rest.
 
  • #73
boneh3ad said:
And we are dealing with a biophysicist. What is your point? Fact: you clearly can't see when you are mistaken and you seem to hold engineers in low regard. Good day.

Now you are being intentionally ignornant:

boneh3ad said:
Now hook up two bags that T together and come out of the same sized final orifice with all bags and the exit at the same respective heights. The pressure is still [itex]\rho g h[/itex] and the area is still A, so that mass flow rate is still the same.

boneh3ad said:
Because it is wrong. Adding two bags does not double the flow rate.

boneh3ad said:
Still, none of them would support your original claim that two bags would create twice the mass flow rate.

Meanwhile:

Andy Resnick said:
By hooking up multiple bags, you are increasing the pressure drop (using two bags at the same height doubles the driving pressure) and so you increase the flowrate.

Andy Resnick said:
Here's the setup:

The drainage times were unchanged. Thus the flowrate was changed

I don't hold engineers in low regard- I hold people who insist on being wrong in low regard:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

Shameful.
 
  • #74
Take a peek in the mirror then. Years of experimental evidence contradicts your claims here. Years of theory by actual fluid dynamicists contradicts your claims here. There are a handful of fluid dynamicists IN THIS thread telling you that you are incorrect. Which of us is the one who is shameful?

You have now called me unskilled and lacking the cognitive capacity to realize I am wrong as a result, yet my claims are borne out by experiments, theory, and other fluid dynamicists everywhere. Which of us seems to fit your accusation better? Or do you claim that EVERYONE is less competent than you, even in fields in which you aren't familiar? You, sir, are delusional.

Look, nobody is perfect. I have certainly had a couple holes in my argument throughout this thread that I have tried to patch up/clarify as it has gone on. After all, that is why I come here: to work on my own ability to explain these concept and to converse with other people who can share another point of view or who are looking to learn.

Earlier you said you were glad some of us weren't your students. Well, I believe I speak for the lot of us when I say that we are glad as well, especially since I have no interest in biophysics and you have no clue in fluid dynamics.
 
  • #75
boneh3ad said:
Take a peek in the mirror then. Years of experimental evidence contradicts your claims here. Years of theory by actual fluid dynamicists contradicts your claims here. There are a handful of fluid dynamicists IN THIS thread telling you that you are incorrect. Which of us is the one who is shameful?

On the contrary- the evidence supports my statements. Or rather, my experiment is in agreement with everyone else-

http://www.engr.scu.edu/~emaurer/classes/ceng141_hydraulics/handouts/Hwk06_plumbing_3_reservoir.pdf [Broken]

http://www.efm.leeds.ac.uk/CIVE/CIVE2400/Handouts/threep.pdf
 
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  • #76
I feel the need to point out that the first link you provided there uses my method of the modified Bernoulli equation. It has head loss terms to account for inviscid effects such as viscous dissipation at the wall, bends in the pipes, mixing, etc.

The second source you just linked to uses my method again, even referring to the same equation I made reference to earlier in Darcy's equation for friction loss in a pipe. Now, if you are referencing the bottom where it says [itex]Q_a + Q_b = Q_c[/itex] then of course that holds for an incompressible fluid, as the mass of the system must be conserved. The thing is, if you closed off one of the branches (a or b) then the other one would show an increase in [itex]Q[/itex] since the second branch is no longer contributing.

The important thing though is that both of these problems are analyzed exactly as I have described in earlier posts. Bernoulli's equation, which serves as the energy equation in this case, can be used if you either neglect viscosity (a useful approximation for many, many problems that gives a physically meaningful answer, even if it isn't the exact solution) or correct for it in the form of a head loss.
 
  • #77
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  • #78
This is still being discussed at length in the Mentor forums, both on a technical level and on a PF rules level. Thanks for your patience.
 
<h2>What are fluids administered through an IV?</h2><p>Fluids administered through an IV, or intravenous fluids, are a combination of water, electrolytes, and other nutrients that are delivered directly into a person's bloodstream through a small tube inserted into a vein.</p><h2>Why are fluids administered through an IV?</h2><p>Fluids are administered through an IV for a variety of reasons, including to replenish fluids lost due to dehydration, to provide necessary nutrients and medications, and to maintain proper hydration levels in patients who are unable to take fluids orally.</p><h2>How are fluids administered through an IV?</h2><p>Fluids are administered through an IV using a sterile technique. The IV tubing is connected to a bag or bottle of fluid, which is then hung on an IV pole. The tubing is inserted into a vein, usually in the hand or arm, and the flow of fluid is controlled by a pump or gravity.</p><h2>What are the potential risks of receiving fluids through an IV?</h2><p>While IV fluids are generally considered safe, there are some potential risks, such as infection at the insertion site, air embolism, and electrolyte imbalances. It is important for healthcare providers to closely monitor patients receiving IV fluids to prevent and address any potential complications.</p><h2>Can anyone receive fluids through an IV?</h2><p>No, not everyone is a candidate for receiving fluids through an IV. People with certain medical conditions, such as heart or kidney disease, may not be able to tolerate large amounts of fluids. Additionally, it is important for healthcare providers to assess a person's overall health and fluid needs before administering fluids through an IV.</p>

What are fluids administered through an IV?

Fluids administered through an IV, or intravenous fluids, are a combination of water, electrolytes, and other nutrients that are delivered directly into a person's bloodstream through a small tube inserted into a vein.

Why are fluids administered through an IV?

Fluids are administered through an IV for a variety of reasons, including to replenish fluids lost due to dehydration, to provide necessary nutrients and medications, and to maintain proper hydration levels in patients who are unable to take fluids orally.

How are fluids administered through an IV?

Fluids are administered through an IV using a sterile technique. The IV tubing is connected to a bag or bottle of fluid, which is then hung on an IV pole. The tubing is inserted into a vein, usually in the hand or arm, and the flow of fluid is controlled by a pump or gravity.

What are the potential risks of receiving fluids through an IV?

While IV fluids are generally considered safe, there are some potential risks, such as infection at the insertion site, air embolism, and electrolyte imbalances. It is important for healthcare providers to closely monitor patients receiving IV fluids to prevent and address any potential complications.

Can anyone receive fluids through an IV?

No, not everyone is a candidate for receiving fluids through an IV. People with certain medical conditions, such as heart or kidney disease, may not be able to tolerate large amounts of fluids. Additionally, it is important for healthcare providers to assess a person's overall health and fluid needs before administering fluids through an IV.

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