What is the relationship between velocity and momentum in a rotating gyroscope?

In summary, the gyroscope has linear momentum, but it does not have any precession-related angular momentum.
  • #1
bobie
Gold Member
720
2
In a video they state that a gyroscope precessing while rotating posesses velocity but not (angular?)momentum.

Is that true?, how can there be velocity without momentum?
Thanks
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
That statement is wrong. A precessing gyroscope has total momentum, which is the sum of the momenta of all its "particles".
 
  • Like
Likes 1 person
  • #3
voko said:
That statement is wrong. A precessing gyroscope has total momentum, which is the sum of the momenta of all its "particles".
But they put an obstacle in its way an it stopped inexplicably without resistance!
 
Last edited:
  • #4
You need to reference your source for this discussion to be meaningful.
 
  • Like
Likes 1 person
  • #5
voko said:
You need to reference your source for this discussion to be meaningful.
Here you are, voko, it's at the very end of the video
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #6
It's a really good video! I love the guy's delivery. I'm going to take a guess that it processes in the opposite direction to the spin. So it has energy but no net angular momentum.
 
  • #7
If I recall correctly, Laithwaite was a pretty smart guy, but there was a problem. He was invited to the Royal Institution and he gave a lecture on gyroscopes, but the problem was that he didn't really understand gyros or why they behave as they do. It was all a horrible mess, an embarassment to the Royal Institution, and something he never really recovered from. I think that is correct, but you should look it up. Anyway, here is a sight that explains each Laithwaite experiment properly.

http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~hemh/gyroscopes/laithwaite.html
 
  • #8
Where is the centripetal force in #5. I'm just not getting it.
 
  • #9
First of all, do not confuse "velocity" with "angular velocity" and "momentum" with "angular momentum". A precessing gyro, as well as a free (stable) gyro, does have angular momentum. Why it does not work as one would intuitively expect is another issue, but that is more than a mere discussion in a forum could cover. Start with a text on classical mechanics covering rigid body motion, then come back, if you still have questions.
 
  • #10
bobie said:
In a video they state that a gyroscope precessing while rotating posesses velocity but not (angular?)momentum.

Is that true?, how can there be velocity without momentum?
Thanks

I bet that if gravity disappeared suddenly, the device would continue its motion in a straight line for a long distance, until the linear motion would be stopped by air drag. So the device has linear momentum.

As the precessing stops immediately when gravity disappears, we conclude that there is no precession related angular momentum in the device. (I mean no angular momentum assosiated with the orbiting motion)
 
Last edited:
  • #11
MikeGomez said:
If I recall correctly, Laithwaite was a pretty smart guy, but there was a problem. He was invited to the Royal Institution and he gave a lecture on gyroscopes, but the problem was that he didn't really understand gyros or why they behave as they do. It was all a horrible mess, an embarassment to the Royal Institution, and something he never really recovered from. I think that is correct, but you should look it up. Anyway, here is a sight that explains each Laithwaite experiment properly.

More down here..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Laithwaite

In 1974, Laithwaite was invited by the Royal Institution to give a talk on a subject of his own choosing. He decided to lecture about gyroscopes, a subject in which he had only recently become interested. His interest had been aroused by an amateur inventor named Alex Jones, who contacted Laithwaite about a reactionless propulsion drive he (Jones) had invented. After seeing a demonstration of Jones's small prototype (a small wagon with a swinging pendulum which advanced intermittently along a table top), Laithwaite became convinced that "he had seen something impossible". In his lecture before the Royal Institution he claimed that gyroscopes weigh less when spinning and, to demonstrate this, he showed that he could lift a spinning gyroscope mounted on the end of a rod easily with one hand but could not do so when the gyroscope was not spinning. At this time, Laithwaite suggested that Newton's laws of motion could not account for the behaviour of gyroscopes and that they could be used as a means of reactionless propulsion. The members of the Royal Institution rejected his ideas and his lecture was not published.

Despite this rejection and despite the fact that Laithwaite later acknowledged that gyroscopes behave fully in accord with Newtonian mechanics, he continued to explore gyroscopic behaviour, maintaining the belief that some form of reactionless propulsion could be derived from them. Laithwaite set up Gyron Ltd with William Dawson and, in 1993, applied for a patent entitled "Propulsion System". See US5860317, GB2289757 and WO9530832 for the US, UK and pct application for patents respectively. A United States Patent, Number 5860317, was granted in 1999.

To this day there are people who mistakenly believe you can make a reactionless propulsion system based on gyroscopes. I would not recommend using his lectures on gyroscopes to learn how they work.
 
  • #12
Jilang said:
Where is the centripetal force in #5. I'm just not getting it.

Note that when he stops it with his hand at 7:33 the tower moves on the desk. To me this clearly shows there is angular momentum trying to keep the system rotating.
 
  • #13
CWatters said:
Note that when he stops it with his hand at 7:33 the tower moves on the desk. To me this clearly shows there is angular momentum trying to keep the system rotating.

He grabs one end of a linearly moving hammer-like thing. In such cases there is a force felt by the grabber.
 

1. What is velocity without momentum?

Velocity without momentum is a measure of an object's speed in a particular direction, without taking into account its mass or the force acting on it. It is a purely descriptive quantity that does not provide information about the object's motion or its interactions with other objects.

2. How is velocity without momentum calculated?

Velocity without momentum is calculated by dividing the distance traveled by the time taken, without considering the object's mass or the forces acting on it. This results in a speed value that only describes the object's motion, and not the forces that may be causing it.

3. What are the units for velocity without momentum?

The units for velocity without momentum are distance over time, such as meters per second or miles per hour. These units represent the speed of the object in a particular direction, without taking into account its mass or the forces acting on it.

4. Can an object have velocity without momentum?

Yes, an object can have velocity without momentum. This can occur when the object is moving at a constant speed in a particular direction, without any changes in its mass or the forces acting on it. In this case, the object's velocity and momentum will be the same, but this is not always the case.

5. What is the difference between velocity and momentum?

Velocity and momentum are related but distinct quantities. Velocity is a measure of an object's speed in a particular direction, while momentum is a measure of its mass and speed combined. Velocity without momentum only considers the object's speed, while momentum takes into account both the object's mass and speed.

Similar threads

Replies
0
Views
499
  • Mechanics
Replies
10
Views
1K
Replies
1
Views
317
Replies
19
Views
1K
Replies
8
Views
1K
Replies
42
Views
3K
Replies
2
Views
759
Replies
4
Views
860
Replies
1
Views
827
Back
Top