Am I supposed to be this lost?

[Poop-Loops]

This is my first quarter at UW (2 years community college before that).

2 of my profs from the classes I'm taking (math phys and astro) just don't give a damn about anybody. The math phys guy expects you to already know the material that he is about to teach. The astro guy makes up his own questions (as opposed to book problems since it's a simple book) and they are SO VAGUE that you don't even know what he is asking. Like, asking for the ratio of the potential energy to kinetic energy of a comet at 1 AU. This comet is also supposed to be on a collision course with Earth. Did it already hit? Is it assumed it's right before the collision? Who knows?

I don't know. I'm getting seriously depressed here. It just seems like there is a barrier here that I cannot jump over, no matter how hard I try.

 

[tim_lou]

dont worry too much. it should be fine. I'm currently enrolled in a second year physics class... my teacher too goes over some gibberish Fourier series math that i haven't even learned (i bet most people doesn't). as long as you are at the same level with your classmates, you will be fine. the professor can't fail the whole class can he/she?

 

[Poop-Loops]

Err... he has...

I think he got spanked for it, though, because someone who took the class before and dropped and is now retaking it says he is teaching much differently. So... I guess that kind of gives me hope. I'll have to wait until the mid term, I guess. I have 3 friends in that class and seriously, I'm the one who is the worst when it comes to math. 2 of them will probably math/physics double major and the 3rd is just a bit better. I've never been very strong mathematically. I'm more of a conceptual and experimental guy. The hardest part for me is that I can never "get" the trick that you need to solve the problem until someone finally shows me. I'm very horrible at that, and it seems that's all math really is: a bunch of tricks.

 

[Pythagorean]

the professor can't fail the whole class can he/she?

some professors on tenure can get to be pompus asses. Sometimes something can be done about it, sometimes not, depending on university politics.

I don't know. I'm getting seriously depressed here. It just seems like there is a barrier here that I cannot jump over, no matter how hard I try.

Don't fret it man, transfering from community college to university life was horrible for me. My math went from A's to C's my first two years at the university. It really made community college seem like preschool.

Use whatever resources you can to learn the material, you have libraries, the internet, and other professors in the department (it's hard to go up and ask them questions at a new university, I know, but sooner or later you'll have to do it. Some professors may even realize who you're taking the class from and be somewhat sympathetic.)

If you have to take the class again, you'll already know the material and you have a chance of getting a better teacher. As long as you're going after what you want, you're going to get it, don't let one professor/class bring you down, it's a long road, you'll have plenty of chances for reprise as long as you look for them and jump on them when you see them.

 

[Apost8]

I feel for you. I've got a prof at the moment that is just awful. He's completely disorganized, rambles on about topics that are not related, and doesn't follow the lesson plan he provided in the syllabus. The other week we had a quiz and none of the questions he asked had anything to do with what we'd covered in homework or in his "lectures" (if you can even call it that). Most people got a D or an F on that quiz. He then had the nerve to call us "lazy." I was so pissed, I almost lost it. I still haven't decided whether to drop the class and hope I get a better prof next semester or just stick it out and see what happens with this loser.

Try not to get too down about it though; I'm sure the other students in your class are equally as frustrated.

 

[matt grime]

This is my first quarter at UW (2 years community college before that).

2 of my profs from the classes I'm taking (math phys and astro) just don't give a damn about anybody. The math phys guy expects you to already know the material that he is about to teach. The astro guy makes up his own questions (as opposed to book problems since it's a simple book) and they are SO VAGUE that you don't even know what he is asking. Like, asking for the ratio of the potential energy to kinetic energy of a comet at 1 AU. This comet is also supposed to be on a collision course with Earth. Did it already hit? Is it assumed it's right before the collision? Who knows?

it is at a distance of one astronomical unit away, and *on* a collision course. I think that tells you it hasn't hit yet...

Anyway, it is common to be quite lost. The emphasis at university is on you to learn it, not for the teachers to spoonfeed it to you. They give you the information, you write it down, this forces you to start to learn it (reading it in a book is not the same), and then you're supposed to study it until you master it.

That said, some people do struggle with lecturing. Have you considered talking to the lecturers in person and explaining these issues, rather than suffering silently in class and then character assassinating them on an internet forum?

 

[matt grime]

I have also had problems with bad professors. There are some famous ones at our school and some dedicated ones, but a great number in the Math department just do not have any dedication to teaching. Such folk belong in industry I think and not in academia, because teaching is something different from other professions

The primary focus of a professor at a university is *not* teaching. They are not there because they love to teach, want to teach, or indeed care about teaching one jot, though many of them do, and take great pride in teaching. They are there to do research. That is how they earn their living - getting research grants. Teaching is one extra thing, along with administration, that they are required to do.

 

[JasonRox]

The primary focus of a professor at a university is *not* teaching. They are not there because they love to teach, want to teach, or indeed care about teaching one jot, though many of them do, and take great pride in teaching. They are there to do research. That is how they earn their living - getting research grants. Teaching is one extra thing, along with administration, that they are required to do.

Exactly, it's part of their job and quite frankly a lot of them suck. If you don't care to teach, tell the students flat out you don't. Don't play some stupid game with the students with the different "style" you have. It's not even that hard to teach and explain ideas.

Although in the other thread I mention that I don't care to be able to explain all my ideas or what not, but really it's not that difficult. I really don't get what the hard part is.

It's part of your career, so personally I think the professors should just learn how to teach and lecture. If you don't want to learn how to teach, don't become a professor. Do your research somewhere else.

I hate this whole attitude of I'm here for research non-sense. I'm here to learn, so um... deal with it or students will leave and you won't be able to do your research.

Note: Not directed to you matt_grime. You do a better job teaching online than most professors do in person with a chalk board!

 

[dontbesilly]

This is my first quarter at UW (2 years community college before that).

2 of my profs from the classes I'm taking (math phys and astro) just don't give a damn about anybody. The math phys guy expects you to already know the material that he is about to teach. The astro guy makes up his own questions (as opposed to book problems since it's a simple book) and they are SO VAGUE that you don't even know what he is asking. Like, asking for the ratio of the potential energy to kinetic energy of a comet at 1 AU. This comet is also supposed to be on a collision course with Earth. Did it already hit? Is it assumed it's right before the collision? Who knows?

I don't know. I'm getting seriously depressed here. It just seems like there is a barrier here that I cannot jump over, no matter how hard I try.

Uh, seems to me you could answer that question...
Use the sun's gravity to find the orbital velocity at 1 AU. Use that to find the kinetic energy. Then find the gravitational potential energy at 1AU, then find the ratio. The fact that the comet is orbiting 1 AU away from the sun means that by definition it's going to hit the earth.

Maybe I missunderstood you? Or am I wrong?

 

[Apost8]

It's part of your career, so personally I think the professors should just learn how to teach and lecture. If you don't want to learn how to teach, don't become a professor. Do your research somewhere else.

I hate this whole attitude of I'm here for research non-sense. I'm here to learn, so um... deal with it or students will leave and you won't be able to do your research.

Note: Not directed to you matt_grime. You do a better job teaching online than most professors do in person with a chalk board!

Well put! Students (or their parents) pay a rediculous amount for tuition, which helps pay for the professors salary and (at least partially) their research. The whole "teaching-is-just-this-pain-in-the-ass-thing-I have-to-do" attitude is piss poor in my opinion.

 

[cracker]

aaah! I felt the same way when I first started some of my classes nothing but 70s but I eventually go everything up to 80s and 90s but they were AP class. Oh and by the way I'm still in high school... :D

 

[Poop-Loops]

I have also had problems with bad professors. There are some famous ones at our school and some dedicated ones, but a great number in the Math department just do not have any dedication to teaching. Such folk belong in industry I think and not in academia, because teaching is something different from other professions in that you are trying to help students learn something. I do not mind it if a professor is hard and likes to challenge students, but when I see no dedication to teaching, this really gets on my nerves; also when I see those who cannot teach, as brilliant as they might be.

I love hard teachers who want to challenge me. My old 1st year prof did that and now my thermal teacher is doing the same (although I know most of the material already. :p). It's when they are vague or make you make leaps of logic without any help is when I just can't progress. Most of my homework time isn't spent doing the problem, it's trying to figure out what they want or what operations are or are not legit on a given function. I spend more time trying to figure out what the hell the book and the lecture is about, than actually getting to know the math and physics. It's ridiculous. Today, for example, my astro. prof went over equations that we'll need on the homework. The homework that was due at the beginning of class. Oops, he was in Cali (work, not play) last class and didn't go over them.

That said, some people do struggle with lecturing. Have you considered talking to the lecturers in person and explaining these issues, rather than suffering silently in class and then character assassinating them on an internet forum?

Some guy asked him about series. That it isn't a number, but just converges to a number. Prof explained that it is a number. And by "explained" I mean, kept making jokes at his expense while showing him he was wrong. I felt sorry for that guy.

If the prof can't teach, why is he in a teaching position? Shouldn't he be in industry or something? I would have assumed that universities would have had higher standards than that.

I'm taking 4 classes this quarter, and my 2 other profs are GOOD teachers. Those classes I'm doing alright in. One prof happens to be a big experimental researcher. That doesn't stop him from being a good teacher.

EDIT: Wait, my point isn't to rag on professors, actually, even though it seems like it. It's just the whole university "experience" is a lot different than anything else. Not so much harder, but a lot more "survival of the fittest" where they just throw you to the wolves and see who can run faster, which really in my mind goes against a "learning environment". I'm not a dumbass, so I know I'll pass the classes. I'm just afraid I'll lose my sanity on the way to my Ph.D.

 

[Pythagorean]

I'm not a dumbass, so I know I'll pass the classes. I'm just afraid I'll lose my sanity on the way to my Ph.D.

13 posts in and you're already on your way to understanding how university life works!

The best part is that once you lose your sanity (or the illusion of it rather) you can be happy while you're struggling.

p.s. spiders are your gods and irrational numbers don't exist

 

[Norman]

EDIT: Wait, my point isn't to rag on professors, actually, even though it seems like it. It's just the whole university "experience" is a lot different than anything else. Not so much harder, but a lot more "survival of the fittest" where they just throw you to the wolves and see who can run faster, which really in my mind goes against a "learning environment". I'm not a dumbass, so I know I'll pass the classes. I'm just afraid I'll lose my sanity on the way to my Ph.D.

It does get better. Your upper level classes will be in somewhat smaller classes (depending on your major) and you will be in tune with the insanity that goes on with university learning. The "ambivalent professor" will always be present at the university. So will the "whiny, point grubbing student."

But once you hit your upper level major classes, you will start to get professors who care a little more about the subject and they know you are really there to learn it. That matters to some of them and makes them try harder. You should really get to know some other students in your program and ask ahead of time if any profs should be avoided. Most departments keep old student reviews available and you can usually go and look at what professors got what reviews for what classes.

Grad school is a whole different ball game. I think most of us will lose (or in most cases have lost) our sanity along the path to the Ph.D. You gain it back later over break only to be lost the next semester. :

Good luck.

 

[oksanav]

You'll get used to the "rhythm" of the classes. I used to be like a little kid "geez the semester will never be over" and feel like I was getting no where. Now it's more like a fun but time consuming job, where I know what to expect from week to week, how much time studying is necessary and when I'd be better off going to bed. I never did the community college thing but I know it seems to be a real shock to the system when people transfer. Don't worry about grades, just what you learn is what my husband always tells me (yells at me).

I think most of us will lose (or in most cases have lost) our sanity along the path to the Ph.D. You gain it back later over break only to be lost the next semester. :

At the beginning of a break, a few days later when it sinks in, I always end up laughing non stop for like half an hour. When I'm watching a sitcom and realize I don't have to feel guilty about undone homework, I just suddenly unwind. And then the first few days back at school, I'm just mad.

 

[leright]

You'll get used to the "rhythm" of the classes. I used to be like a little kid "geez the semester will never be over" and feel like I was getting no where. Now it's more like a fun but time consuming job, where I know what to expect from week to week, how much time studying is necessary and when I'd be better off going to bed. I never did the community college thing but I know it seems to be a real shock to the system when people transfer. Don't worry about grades, just what you learn is what my husband always tells me (yells at me).


At the beginning of a break, a few days later when it sinks in, I always end up laughing non stop for like half an hour. When I'm watching a sitcom and realize I don't have to feel guilty about undone homework, I just suddenly unwind. And then the first few days back at school, I'm just mad.

Yeah, it's the greatest feeling ever.

 

[leright]

Don't worry about grades, just what you learn is what my husband always tells me (yells at me).

Your husband is a very wise man. I wish all people had this kind of insight.

 

[JasonRox]

Don't worry about grades, just what you learn is what my husband always tells me (yells at me).

That's what I tell everyone, but no one listens!

 

[michealsmith]

a random point ..i think the vagueness comes from the fact that he may also expect you to know stuff you don't already know aaswell ,just like the other prof.

 

[Norman]

I am also for the learning-but it is often that one does get a stupid professor who is not interested in teaching, nor knows how to teach properly. I do not mind if a professor is hard-as long as he is fair. It is when I see no commitment to teaching that really gets on my nerves. These folks belong in industry not academia. I used to have far greater respect for academia and professors than I do now. Now I realize it is just as corrupt as any other organizatio. Not to say that there are not many dedicated professors out there, really dedicated to their research and to teaching.

I think you are operating under a false assumption that Professors are there to teach you. They are not. They are there to do research. I will quote Matt Grime again (emphasis mine):

The primary focus of a professor at a university is *not* teaching. They are not there because they love to teach, want to teach, or indeed care about teaching one jot, though many of them do, and take great pride in teaching. They are there to do research. That is how they earn their living - getting research grants. Teaching is one extra thing, along with administration, that they are required to do.

Once you come to terms with this, things might get better, since your expectations of the professor/student relationship will change.

If you really care about having good teachers, maybe your current institution is not the best place for you. Or maybe you should do your homework on who is teaching what classes and when, and try and take classes with good teachers. When it comes down to it, you are spending a good amount of money on an education. Be a good consumer and do your homework first before you shell out the cash for the product.

 

[matt grime]

It's not even that hard to teach and explain ideas.

There speaks someone who has never had to stand in front of 50-250 people and attempt to explain something to them.

It's part of your career, so personally I think the professors should just learn how to teach and lecture. If you don't want to learn how to teach, don't become a professor. Do your research somewhere else.

Again, you evidently have not tried to teach. Imagine if I were to say to you 'if you can't learn the subject then you shouldn't bother to be at university, it's not as if the maths you're doing is that hard'. You would not be impressed and rightly so. Until you've tried to do it you should be reasonable in ytour criticism.

I hate this whole attitude of I'm here for research non-sense. I'm here to learn, so um... deal with it or students will leave and you won't be able to do your research.

Did I condone that attititude, or have you interpolated that there are precisely two types of people. Those who teach well, and those who do not care about teaching and are rubbish. If you indeed think that the only barrier to being a good teacher is lack of motivation for teaching then you are sadly mistaken.

 

[matt grime]

Well put! Students (or their parents) pay a rediculous amount for tuition, which helps pay for the professors salary and (at least partially) their research. The whole "teaching-is-just-this-pain-in-the-ass-thing-I have-to-do" attitude is piss poor in my opinion.

If you're going to make claims like that you should go and research just what the basic salary of a lecturer is, what part of that comes from tuition fees, and what part comes from research grants. Remember that there are graduates to teach and supervise too, and buildings to pay for, administators to pay, consumable materials... you think that much of that cash you hand over for fees actually makes its way into the teacher's pay packet? Given that in some of the sciences, say, research grants run into the millions of dollars without any difficulty, you're going to claim that comes from your fees?

Then there is the lecturers time spent on administration, writing grant applications, writing papers, writing exams, marking exams...

If the lecturers didn't focus on research then the university wouldn't exist at all. The bulk of the money for universities is apportioned through research grants. If you want a university with no record for research, correspondingly lesser quality academics, and ulitmately a degree with less kudos attached to it by all means go down that route.

Sorry, but I'm pig sick of this 'teaching isn't hard' attitude displayed by people who've never attempted it. Noticeably those who moan loudest about the quality of teaching are also those who do least well, and don't bother to discuss these things with the lecturer. He/she is not an ogre and is desperate for feed back rather than disgruntled students. Don't wait for the evaluation forms to start anonymously ripping into them if you have a problem. Talk to them. It will do you and them far more good. Attend office hours. Discuss it one to one and be prepared to do some of the donkey work yourself - it is not high school anymore.

 

[Apost8]

I think you are operating under a false assumption that Professors are there to teach you. They are not. They are there to do research. I will quote Matt Grime again (emphasis mine):

I humbly disagree. While teaching may not be their primary responsibility/concern, it is nevertheless an important part of their job and, in my opinion, one that should be taken seriously.

 

[matt grime]

try reading this

http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~twk/Lecture.pdf

 

[JasonRox]

There speaks someone who has never had to stand in front of 50-250 people and attempt to explain something to them.



Again, you evidently have not tried to teach. Imagine if I were to say to you 'if you can't learn the subject then you shouldn't bother to be at university, it's not as if the maths you're doing is that hard'. You would not be impressed and rightly so. Until you've tried to do it you should be reasonable in ytour criticism.



Did I condone that attititude, or have you interpolated that there are precisely two types of people. Those who teach well, and those who do not care about teaching and are rubbish. If you indeed think that the only barrier to being a good teacher is lack of motivation for teaching then you are sadly mistaken.

Hmm... how do you know I don't teach?

I teach one hour of Linear Algebra every week in a seminar ranging from 30-60 people.

I received compliments myself, as well as my professor got e-mails about the good TA on hand.

Yes, I know how to teach.

My opinions still stand. Teach or get out of academia.

 

[matt grime]

I humbly disagree. While teaching may not be their primary responsibility/concern, it is nevertheless an important part of their job and, in my opinion, one that should be taken seriously.

They do take it seriously. Every university pretty much requires certain levels of competency from their lecturing staff, people get fired because of their teaching. No one disputes that iit is a good thing for people to take teaching seriously. What I would certainly dispute is the reasonableness of the expectations of some of the contributors to this thread, and the competency of them to pass these censorious views on people doing a job that they will never have to do themselves, and in a manner that is completely unhelpful. Why ***** here about it? Why look for people to confirm your victim mentality at the sheer injustice of these crap teachers? Why not go talk to the teacher and try to help them and yourself if you care about it that much.

 

[matt grime]

Hmm... how do you know I don't teach?

I teach one hour of Linear Algebra every week in a seminar ranging from 30-60 people.

I received compliments myself, as well as my professor got e-mails about the good TA on hand.

Yes, I know how to teach.

My opinions still stand. Teach or get out of academia.

Then perhaps you are a natural? So tell us all how to teach well, then, and you can stop all these people whinging about having poor teachers. (Getting good reports from students doesn't make you a good teacher. I know of one person who kept getting all the teaching awards going from the student lobby yet couldn't actually explain maths worth a damn. They just told the students how to do every example and didn't let examples they hadn't taught onto the exams. Students, or the vocal ones, loved this since it meant now intellectual input was required of them, and they got to pass the course with flying colours. Of course they didn't understand a thing and were soon found out in the next course. Anyway, please feel free to assert that teaching all maths is easy from the experience of teaching one hour a week (at quite a good university, I seem to remember) as a TA in Linear Algebra. Significantly many people do not find it that easy. And I repeat my quesiton: how would you like it if I told you that all the undergrad maths was easy and if you can't do it irrespective of the teacher then you've no business being at university? I think you would not be happy with that opinion, and neither would I be.)

 

[Apost8]

They do take it seriously. Every university pretty much requires certain levels of competency from their lecturing staff, people get fired because of their teaching. No one disputes that iit is a good thing for people to take teaching seriously. What I would certainly dispute is the reasonableness of the expectations of some of the contributors to this thread, and the competency of them to pass these censorious views on people doing a job that they will never have to do themselves, and in a manner that is completely unhelpful.

Look, if I've offended you in some way, then I apologize. But I do not think it is unreasonable to expect a certain degree of professionalism from a professor. Does that mean "hold my hand and teach me how to wipe my ass" attentiveness. No, it certainly does not. But there are (rare) cases when a professor clearly does not care about their role in teaching and I do not think that this is acceptable.

Why ***** here about it? Why look for people to confirm your victim mentality at the sheer injustice of these crap teachers? Why not go talk to the teacher and try to help them and yourself if you care about it that much.

You're right. Griping about it is not going to help the situation in the slightest. As you suggest, the rational course of action for the OP would be to go to the professor and calmly voice their concerns. Think back to when you were a student. Did you never have a sub par professor? Did you never express your frustrations with that situation to parties not involved? I do not agree that voicing one's frustrations necessarily makes one guilty of harboring a "victim mentality."

 

[matt grime]

In this thread we have had poor lecturers (by whatever standard) described as lazy, stupid, and unprofessional, and advised that they should change jobs, with very little looking in the mirror and thinking how they would like it if the tables were turned.

 

[JasonRox]

Then perhaps you are a natural? So tell us all how to teach well, then, and you can stop all these people whinging about having poor teachers.

Get social skills.

As for teachers who just do examples identical to the exam, well that gets you nowhere and later you will be plagued with upper year students not knowing a damn thing. It's not what I do.

 

[Norman]

try reading this

http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~twk/Lecture.pdf

This is a great read. I think it should be compulsory reading for all 1st year students at the beginning of each course.
Thank you Matt.
Cheers.

 

[devious_]

Having good social skills does not make you a good teacher.

 

[Norman]

I had some terrible professors-people who were just terrible, they were not interested in teaching students, but good researchers, so the college keeps them. I have learned. Now I do good research before taking a class. But I have had some good professors as well-like the man who wrote the mathematical logic book we were using-he was not above helping you and genuinely interested in your progress. I have also tended to notice that the good professors are usually very productive intellectually-it is true in Math, professors are there to just present the material-one has to ultimately do the work oneself, but there is a tremendous advantage to having a professor that is dedicated to teaching, especially during the first years of one's major when one is still in the formative stages.
But I do not think that it is asking too much of a professor to try to put in more effort.
Teaching is something that involves some commitment-those that put no effort in teaching ought to work in industry. Teaching is not like a business, and does entail some responsibility towards the students. I have also noticed that the best professors are also somehow also very productive intellectually, apart from teaching. I have never minded having a a difficult professor-provided they are fair. Most the bad professors I have had, do not seem to have done anything impressive in their fields.

Ah, thank you for clarifying your position. I agree with a lot of what you are saying and I get the impression that you are the type of student most teachers (at what ever level) enjoy to teach. I think that is a very interesting last statement that you made, but I have seen many exceptions to that rule. In the end, I believe, the majority of it comes down the willingness of a given lecturer to put forth the effort to be a decent teacher.

But I have to empathise with many lecturers (having done some of it myself). Teaching can be an exhausting thing. Especially the lower level classes. You can have 300 student to teach, and 50 of them are stopping by your office to beg for every little point on every exam (an extreme case, but I have witnessed it). In the end, you shouldn't judge too harshly until you have been in the same situation. That is the crux of what Matt Grime is saying here.

 

[Apost8]

I agree with what lunarmansion has put forth, in that it is not the academically difficult or rigorous professor anyone here has a gripe with, rather, it is the (again I stress *rare*) professor who doesn't "put forth the effort" as Norman puts it. I have nothing but respect for the 99% of professors who regularly exhibit their dedication to teaching and go above and beyond what is required of them.

I 'd like to add that it is likewise reasonable for any professor to expect and require a professional attitude from their students. Though this isn't usually a problem in a university setting, it does occur from time-to-time, and I empathize with any professor having to deal with it.

 

[matt grime]

Get social skills.

it is commonly observed that good mathematicians often have some form of aspergers, or mild autism, and are thus not equipped with such things. Perhaps you can offer something that does not discriminate amongst those of us with such a condition?