Math tricks to win in casino games?

[eljose]

it,s a really interesting subjectwhat would be the most used strategies to win?

I know one,you bet 1 dollar,if you lose you bet 2 if you lose bet 4 and so on,if you win you begin again betting only a dollar

 

[matt grime]

And providing you have an infinite amount of money you're ok.

If you've a fantastic memory you can improve your odds at blackjack, but any reasonably professional outfit will use multiple packs and discard half of the cards (at random) to minimize this possibility. (If you see them, they shuffle together mutliple packs put them in a big holder and then put a partition in about half way - when they reach the partition they throw them away.)

You can win at poker, but that's because you're not playing the house.

 

[uart]

I know one,you bet 1 dollar,if you lose you bet 2 if you lose bet 4 and so on,if you win you begin again betting only a dollar

.
Ultimately that strategy leads to you betting the house limit and losing the lot.

The best strategy I know is to take the money you were going to gamble and put it in the bank, wins every time. Either that or take it and spend it on something useful like beer. :)

 

[Moses]

Well, i did not see in my life any mathematician/scientist who was famous at going to gamble and win.

This because this thingy is mosty luck game, and in my opinion a waste of energy and time and money, it destroys the economy from micro to marco levels [the last is extreme ]

AND IT SHOULD BE TOTALLY BANNED.

What wrong with hearts in your com, its cool and can make you relax, for free :tongue2:

 

[fourier jr]

there was a thing on TV a few weeks ago about the MIT blackjack club. it was a bunch of math & comp-sci people who counted cards & raked in huge $$$. they noticed that if there were lots of high cards showing then there weren't very many in the deck, and they would bet depending on how many high cards were in the deck. the chances of another high card coming up were low if there was already a bunch showing, etc. (can't remember all the details) they would have people from the club at a whole table, so they'd all bet to maximize their winnings, and then split it afterwards. to keep the casinos from catching on, they had a bunch of people in a rotation so there were different people playing, but they were all in on it. in the end the leader (a comp sci instructor or something) got caught & everyone got banned, so i don't the club is doing their thing anymore.

 

[krab]

I agree with Moses. Casinos Love it when stories on gambling strategies are propagated. It keeps hopeful, ignorant people coming back.

Similarly, if there were no stories in the news media about lottery winners, then the average joe would never have heard of anyone ever winning one. So he would not be interested in buying a ticket.

 

[Tide]

Do a Google on "gambler's ruin" - it might convince you that you're not likely to make a killing - even in a fair game - if your "opponent" has more chips than you!

 

[Physics_wiz]

it,s a really interesting subjectwhat would be the most used strategies to win?

I know one,you bet 1 dollar,if you lose you bet 2 if you lose bet 4 and so on,if you win you begin again betting only a dollar

This strategy gets destroyed by the casino's rakes. Learning how to calculate pot odds in poker is a must if you want to play it. Of course you're hearing this from a big holdem loser but I lasted longer with pot odds calculations. Anyways, the easiest games to win are home games--ones that you play with your friends. Online or in a casino you're more likely to lose. I don't think gambling is a good idea, because that's just what it is...gambling. Probabilities play a big part and it's just hard because other people are not stupid too.

Think about it, if you're making money then someone else is loosing money. Most of the time, people who gamble will know what they're doing. If you have the odds and you bet, they'll see that and not put money in, so you end up losing because of the rakes.

 

[Chronos]

Gambling is for losers, that's why there are so many of them. I know people who are casino regulars. Sometimes they come back winners. Next time they give it all back with interest. Of course they don't talk as much about that part.

 

[Hurkyl]

Here's one interesting fact that emphasizes just how bad gambling is: in general, your best strategy for winning $X at the casino is to bet the maximum until you make your target or go bust. (Yes, that means bet everything you have, if allowed)

 

[BoulderHead]

Card counting at the Blackjack table seemed to help a couple friends of mine walk away winners but it was a such a lot of work practicing the technique I suspect they eventually tired (well, one died and the other was asked to leave...).
For me, the idea of simply having an enjoyable time would be hindered by all of this. Wildcat well drilling, now, that's a gamble worth the addiction.

 

[robert Ihnot]

Moses: Well, i did not see in my life any mathematician/scientist who was famous at going to gamble and win.

Maybe that is not true. In my lifetime, Dr. Edward O. Thorp, famous author wrote in 1962, Beat the Dealer; and also wrote an elementary college text on probabilty; got into Life Magazine explaining how he had used a computer to discover the method of card counting. Up to this time, casinos and players had never figured on any such advantage.

Did Thorp make his money on the book, or at the casino? I guess he might have made some money at the casino, but probably his success as an author contributed more. Anyway, because of him, casinos changed the way they play blackjack.

 

[robert Ihnot]

Hurkly: Here's one interesting fact that emphasizes just how bad gambling is: in general, your best strategy for winning $X at the casino is to bet the maximum until you make your target or go bust.

Sure, and casinos fear that. At the Plaza here in Las Vegas, they did allow an 32 year old English "professional gambler" to bet his life assets of $135,300, which included the proceeds of his house and furniture, on red 7 at the Roulette wheel. This got a lot of publicity and the gambler won, doubling his money. Some people claim it was a very bad bet because in the 38 numbers 18 are red and 18 are black, that means that two numbers, green, are reserved for the house. (Of course, they are also going to pick up on the 18 black if no one else is in the game, which I guess they were not.) But the gambler said he made the house cover one of the green slots so that he had a probability of 18/37 = 48.6%.

Generally though, the house wants to make a steady profit as a business. They do not want to risk large losses in case someone gets lucky, regardless of the odds.

The same thing is true of hedgers, who expect to profit from, say, gold mining, or oranges for that matter, or require gold or other precious metals, or oranges in a commercial process. They make their bets on the side opposite their profit side. This is a form of insurance. Business people, you see, tend to think alike.

 

[robert Ihnot]

Krab: Casinos Love it when stories on gambling strategies are propagated. It keeps hopeful, ignorant people coming back.

Steve Wynn, one of the most successful casino owners in Vegas, once, I remember, told a magazine reporter, "System Players! Why we will send a van to their house to pick them up and bring them here!"

 

[Mk]

there was a thing on TV a few weeks ago about the MIT blackjack club. it was a bunch of math & comp-sci people who counted cards & raked in huge $$$. they noticed that if there were lots of high cards showing then there weren't very many in the deck, and they would bet depending on how many high cards were in the deck. the chances of another high card coming up were low if there was already a bunch showing, etc. (can't remember all the details) they would have people from the club at a whole table, so they'd all bet to maximize their winnings, and then split it afterwards. to keep the casinos from catching on, they had a bunch of people in a rotation so there were different people playing, but they were all in on it. in the end the leader (a comp sci instructor or something) got caught & everyone got banned, so i don't the club is doing their thing anymore.

If that seems intersting to you, there's a book called "Bringin Down the House." It was really good, written by a guy who was in the MIT blackjack club.

 

[Alkatran]

Does anyone find it odd that people get kicked out or banned for using their heads at a blackjack table?

My statistics professor told the class that there was once a small group of college students which went to a casino and (covertly) observed the results from an apparently random game and found that the probability distribution was weighted enough to make a profit.

They were kindly asked to leave a few days later.

 

[Muzza]

Does anyone find it odd that people get kicked out or banned for using their heads at a blackjack table?

No, not really. The casino's mission is to make money.

 

[fourier jr]

Does anyone find it odd that people get kicked out or banned for using their heads at a blackjack table?

My statistics professor told the class that there was once a small group of college students which went to a casino and (covertly) observed the results from an apparently random game and found that the probability distribution was weighted enough to make a profit.

They were kindly asked to leave a few days later.

well no wonder, they could have cost the casino money. stuff like card-counting isn't illegal, but since it happens on private property the casinos can kick people out for any reason they want, or no reason at all.

 

[BoulderHead]

You could use math to determine how long it would take to run out to the getaway vehicle after grabbing a handfull of chips...

 

[robert Ihnot]

No, not really. The casino's mission is to make money.

This has been discussed by players. I believe that the law in Nevada says that they can not throw you out of a casino because of your skill level, but they may do it anyway.

A court case going on, for many years, is about whether the slot machines are run in a random manner, and that customers are enticed to keep playing because they feel they have come close to a win, which was not really true since the machine is programmed.

The judge in this case refused to certify a class action suit because it was not clear what the motivation of the player was, whether he expected to profit, or whether he just thought it was recreation, or whatever other reasons he might have to play.

If skill level concerns you, probably you should play games against other players rather than games against the casino.

 

[Chronos]

Card counting in blackjack is one of the very few [perhaps only] tricks that players could use to beat the 'house'. It is no longer impossible, just very hard, as other posters have noted. If you dilute the deck, even the most proficient card counters can barely break even. The house cut in blackjack is blackjack. If the dealer [who plays first] turns up blackjack, the house wins.

 

[Alkatran]

No, not really. The casino's mission is to make money.

I meant that it really shows the casino's intentions.

 

[kreil]

Card counting in blackjack will only get you a 1-2% edge over the house. Still, it is indeed ironic that many casinos teach people how to play the game, those people become good, and then the casino asks them to leave. Politely, of course. Something like "we don't want you at our blackjack tables anymore" or "you're business is not welcome here, please leave". This is a common situation, and is why many good blackjack players are banned from every casino in vegas.

If you are proficient at the math of poker, however, it can net you a full 10-12% edge over your opponents. Many people claim poker is still just gambling, and the truth is that mostly is, and that the math only insures you make financially sound moves (as in, if the situation was repeated thousands of times, you would come out of it winning enough money from all the hands to cover and have profit from all the money wagered in all the hands). Poker also introduces the SKILL of reading opponents however, and so this is why many people are very successful at it; they have good instincts and have trained their people reading skills.

Some people gamble for the excitement. If the only reason you are doing it is to make money, I recommend you learn poker and learn it well, lots of VERY, VERY (this can't be stressed enough) VERY BAD players play poker (mostly online).

 

[Alkatran]

How does card counting work, exactly? Why can't the dealer do it?

 

[shmoe]

I think the usual rules make the dealer hit on 16 or lower, and stand on 17 or higher. So even if he had x-ray vision and could see the next card, it wouldn't help him and neither would card counting.

I believe (I'm not a gambler) the purpose of card counting is to give you a better idea of the probability of a certain card showing up. If you know how many face cards have been dealt out, you'd know the probability you'll be dealt one and can decide accordingly.

 

[Justin Lazear]

Just to support the idea that there are some very bad players on online poker, there is a monstrous plasma TV upstairs that came from a year or so of online poker. And this was pretty much on top of the money to pay off tuition. And that's not even nearly the end of the money.

--J

 

[mathwonk]

do the casinos seem to be going out of business? a very enlightening book is "scarne on dice", or anything by john scarne. In his "complete guide to gambling"he tells a poignant story of a casino owner who retired with several millions of dollars profit, and then with nothing to do and time on his hands, began to gamble himself. he was broke within a few years.

to be brief, the casinos play only games where the odds are in their favor, thay have the most money, they make the rules, and they do not tolerate "card counting".

I read Thorp's book in the 60's and was quite disllusioned that he made the same dishonest mistake as all losers, i.e. all gamblers, namely he lies about his winnings. One chapter is entitled soemthing like "how I won $11,000 in 30 minutes". After erading it one sees that he did get ahead that far, but kept playing and then lost much of it back over the next hour or so.

obviously, if you are not totally self deluded, you will agree that he would not have written book about it unless that seemed more profitable then actuially practicing his system.

oh, by the way, before iwm as a mathematician, i used also to be an amateur card "mechanic", good enough to be invited on the road by a professional thief once. a friend of mine whom i taught some moves told me he saw dealers in nevada peeking at cards, i.e. cheating. so the casinos also cheat. this is also confirmed by scarne who writes that he was offered jobs cheating in tahoe.

none of this will matter to some readers however. one night i was in a bar with a friend playing dice when out of idle curiosity i checked the balance of the die by holding it between thumb and forefinger. it rotated 180 degrees, proving it was loaded. my friend however continued to play. as he put it, "it's the only game here"!