Meatpacking: The Dangerous Reality for Workers

[Monique]

How much does meat play a part in your diner?

Do you think a diner can not be served without meat, or that you'd be able to adept a vegetarian diet?

 

[DeathKnight]

I chose 3-4 per week option. Meat can be found in one form or another in my diet.

I find it so strange that people are so focussed on meat and disregard the suffering of an animal that ends up on their plate.

What do you mean by suffering? Dont the animals suffer when another animal kills them for food? Thats the way of life and I see no reason why a person should give up eating meat(unless its for medical reasons that is).

 

[selfAdjoint]

Most days of the week I eat cereals, cheese, and salads. Once or twice a week I have dinner with my daughter and order meat, usually a steak, prime rib, or pot roast.

 

[Les Sleeth]

I find it so strange that people . . . disregard the suffering of an animal that ends up on their plate.

Well, I'd hope they would make sure it was dead first.

To be more serious, when I was younger I was around farm life often and I'd say the animals were butchered humanely, and usually with less suffering than when another animal kills them as prey. And until their slaughter, they led a pretty luxurious life.

My first reason for quitting meat back in 1972 was for health. I am soooooo glad I did. But I also was feeling I didn't want to be part of the violence it takes to kill. It seemed to make me less consciously sensitive, as did eating meat. So I'd have to say that my main reasons for not eating it are out of self interest.

If the meat industry didn't treat animals so horrendously, I don't think I'd see a problem with killing animals for food since that is how nature itself is set up. I do eat dairy products, and there is a concern there too about animal cruelty. Self interest is still a priority for me, so I make sure it is organic to avoid the hormones and antibiotics they give dairy cows, and the pesticides in the grains they feed them. But a dairy available here also makes sure the cows have a decent life by letting them graze outside, etc. So I support that dairy because I don't want animals to suffer.

Do you think a diner can not be served without meat, or that you'd be able to adept a vegetarian diet?

Once one learns some basic dietary and gourmet cooking principles, there's nothing to it. I have a lot of meat-eating friends who claim to love my cooking. I've heard them say many times they don't even notice the lack of meat. Of course when I am at their house and they've got the barbie going, it's quite the spectacle to me. I usually tolerate the smells okay but I have a hard time watching them chow down on a carcass and stuff dead rotting flesh into their bodies. :yuck:

 

[Moonbear]

I said 5 to 6 dinners per week. But, unlike many Americans, that doesn't mean sitting down to half a cow, it might mean one chicken leg, or a small piece of beef. If I skip having meat, then it some other dairy product or eggs that provides a source of protein and fat.

I've always known meat comes from animals, I wasn't one of those kids raised oblivious to this seemingly obvious fact. I don't know what you imply when you say people disregard the suffering of the animal; well, no, I do know what you imply, but don't like the way its phrased, that assumes the animals are suffering, and that eating meat requires animal suffering. No matter what PC arguments people use, humans are still omnivores and intended to eat meat. I don't think people who eat meat are "focused" on meat, it's just a normal part of our diets. And I don't think satisfying nutritional requirements is strange. If you choose to eat a vegetarian diet, go ahead and do so, but if your argument is animal suffering, keep in mind all those crops are displacing animals from their natural environment, pumping pesticides and fertilizers into the environment, killing off tons of insects and other invertebrates (maybe they don't count since they aren't cute and furry). There are a lot of people on the planet, we need food, there is no way to provide that much food without having an impact on the environment.

 

[scarecrow]

How much does meat play a part in your diner? I find it so strange that people are so focussed on meat and disregard the suffering of an animal that ends up on their plate.

Do you think a diner can not be served without meat, or that you'd be able to adept a vegetarian diet?

Of course, but animals were put on Earth for a purpose -- to be eaten (some of them at least).
I don't understand vegetarians.

 

[Moonbear]

Of course, but animals were put on Earth for a purpose -- to be eaten (some of them at least).
I don't understand vegetarians.

There's nothing challenging to understand there. As I mentioned, humans are omnivores. You can satisfy your nutritional requirements with a vegetarian diet as well as with a diet including meat, and if that's your preference, that's fine. However, what I don't like is when vegetarians fling around a high-and-mighty attitude that their diet is better for the planet than a meat-containing diet, when that's just not true. The impacts are different, but real nonetheless. And it's no better when meat-eaters fling around an attitude that animals were put on the planet just for them to eat. Neither argument holds up. Go with your own preferences. What's the most natural diet that has the least damage to the environment? The one that allows lots of humans to starve to death. I think we've already decided to avoid what nature recommends.

 

[mattmns]

*wipes face* I am eating meat as I type this

 

[Gonzolo]

I eat meat 14 times a week. Lunch and dinner, (never for breakfast). Am I an animal?

 

[russ_watters]

How much does meat play a part in your diner?

I choose "always" - I almost never have a dinner without meat.

Most of this is a discussion for the "other" thread, but real quick:

I find it so strange that people are so focussed on meat and disregard the suffering of an animal that ends up on their plate.

I don't eat veal - most, if not all, veal comes from mistreated calves. Other cattle are generally a different story. Fish are a non-issue since most are caught wild. Chickens are probably the toughest, because the worst treatment is of those that are used to make eggs.

Do you think a diner can not be served without meat, or that you'd be able to adept a vegetarian diet?

I think I could adapt to a vegitarian diet if I absolutely had to. But I wouldn't do it by choice.

 

[somy]

Well, I hate "vegeterians"!

 

[Les Sleeth]

Well, I hate "vegeterians"!

Well, meat eaters stink!

 

[Monique]

why would you hate vegetarians

And Moonbear, I don't mean to say that meat-eaters are bad. I mean to say that factory meat should not be in our diet: animals that grow up in steal cages where they can't move an inch. How would one know that the meat on your plate is not of that origin?

And who says eating meat should be given up entirely. Moderation is the key I'm looking for, together with creativity. I stopped eating meat in my diner completely and I haven't missed it a day, there are just too many other options

 

[Monique]

and I think restaurants should be cathering more towards vegetarians.. often there is not a single dish on the menu vegetarian.. what's that all about?

 

[Les Sleeth]

. . . that assumes the animals are suffering, and that eating meat requires animal suffering. . . . .what I don't like is when vegetarians fling around a high-and-mighty attitude that their diet is better for the planet than a meat-containing diet, when that's just not true. The impacts are different, but real nonetheless.

I agree with you about the "high-and-mighty attitude" thing; besides, humanity has far more serious issues to worry about.

However, I have to disagree with you about both the cruelty and the impact to Earth from meat eating versus that of plant eating. It is unbearable to see what animals go through to become food, and the scale of it is gruesome too. I suspect that one involved in mass slaughter has to desensitize to be able to ignore the animals' plight. . . sort of just see them as a hunk of meat without feelings. If animals were given a comfortable life and a compassionate death I don't see how animal lovers could object (given that nature is set up for killing and eating animals). It would then be just a personal matter.

In terms of the impact on the planet, it takes a lot more grain to fatten a cow than it does to just eat the grain, about 40 times more (i.e., 40 pounds of grain produce one pound of meat). So the impact on the environment is significantly greater.

 

[Les Sleeth]

and I think restaurants should be cathering more towards vegetarians.. often there is not a single dish on the menu vegetarian.. what's that all about?

Vegetarians . . . the new oppressed class. I think we need our rights preserved with anti-discrimination laws, protection from hate crimes (like meat-eaters secretly spiking the soup with chicken broth,etc.), and a tax break because it costs more to eat healthy (due to lack of mass production).

 

[russ_watters]

And Moonbear, I don't mean to say that meat-eaters are bad. I mean to say that factory meat should not be in our diet: animals that grow up in steal cages where they can't move an inch. How would one know that the meat on your plate is not of that origin?

Because, except for chicken, that makes up a relatively small fraction of the meat people eat. I prefer beef anyway.

and I think restaurants should be cathering more towards vegetarians.. often there is not a single dish on the menu vegetarian.. what's that all about?

Do I need to say that dirty word? Capitalism!

 

[Gokul43201]

My lunch almost always involves meat - I eat lunch out, everyday - but dinner, rarely.

 

[hypnagogue]

I think we need our rights preserved with anti-discrimination laws

I hope you're not serious. :tongue2: A restaurant should be able to serve whatever its owners choose to serve. You might as well sue a felafel place for not serving meat, or a hardware store for not having the type of tool you need, or something equally ludicrous.

If anything, the onus is on the vegetarian to check the menu and make sure the restaurant in question is suitable for him/her. Failing that, hey, there's always the bread, and that's free! (Personally, I feel greatly discriminated against that restaurants never offer free meat-based appetizers.)

 

[Bystander]

(snip)In terms of the impact on the planet, it takes a lot more grain to fatten a cow than it does to just eat the grain, about 40 times more (i.e., 40 pounds of grain produce one pound of meat). (snip).

"40 pounds?" This fabrication has to contribute enormously to the disdain, scorn, lack of respect the world exhibits toward "vegans." From new calf to slaughterhouse takes 2-3 yrs --- mammals go through 3-10 times their body mass per yr --- an exclusive grain diet for cattle? Call the vet.

The "40" is "8" in DD's thread in "values" --- possible for Kobe beef --- but not a generally credible figure for the beef industry. Hyperbole ("hype" for short) is great for politicians, used car salesmen, hucksters, flim-flammers, and other frauds, but don't expect to be taken seriously when you quote numbers from sources that just make them up for the occasion.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

My only comments on vegetarian diets: Oak BBQ'd ribeye steaks or death! There are no other options.

Vegetables are rabbit food. I eat rabbits

 

[Les Sleeth]

I hope you're not serious. :tongue2: A restaurant should be able to serve whatever its owners choose to serve. You might as well sue a felafel place for not serving meat, or a hardware store for not having the type of tool you need, or something equally ludicrous.

If anything, the onus is on the vegetarian to check the menu and make sure the restaurant in question is suitable for him/her. Failing that, hey, there's always the bread, and that's free! (Personally, I feel greatly discriminated against that restaurants never offer free meat-based appetizers.)

I was just kidding. However, I have been poisoned, as has my wife, several times after inquiring if some dish was meat free and told it was. Usually it is chicken broth added to the soup, or to the water to make rice (like for esp. Mexican dishes). Sometimes it is beef broth in sauces, and other times we suspect it is from cooking veggies on the same grill as meat, or frying in the same oil. To say "poisoned" might sound overdramatic, but the consequences always involve nausea and diarrhea, and on occasion has involved hurling one's dinner on the way home from the restaurant. Once one's system is clear of meat, the body doesn't handle it well.

 

[dextercioby]

I not only eat,but somtimes kill my dinner... :tongue2:

MEAT IS PROTEINS,FIBER AND HEALTH...

Daniel.

 

[Les Sleeth]

"40 pounds?" This fabrication has to contribute enormously to the disdain, scorn, lack of respect the world exhibits toward "vegans."

Exactly what "disdain, scorn, lack of respect the world exhibits toward vegans'" are you referring to? Why should anyone care what I choose to eat? No one has ever treated me badly because of what I eat, and I don't judge others. Only a moron would look down on someone because of their diet.

From new calf to slaughterhouse takes 2-3 yrs --- mammals go through 3-10 times their body mass per yr --- an exclusive grain diet for cattle? Call the vet. The "40" is "8" in DD's thread in "values" --- possible for Kobe beef --- but not a generally credible figure for the beef industry.

I took my figures from "Diet for a Small Planet." The book is at least 20 years old, and maybe he did exaggerate, though I've never heard that criticism. I've repeated that figure many times over the years and never had anyone challenge it, so there was no attempt at misrepresentation on my part. However, even if the figure is 8 (or for that matter 2!), that is quite a significant increase in impact on the planet, wouldn't you agree?

Hyperbole ("hype" for short) is great for politicians, used car salesmen, hucksters, flim-flammers, and other frauds, but don't expect to be taken seriously when you quote numbers from sources that just make them up for the occasion.

I've been eating without meat for so long I don't even think about it. It is no "cause" for me. In fact, when people say "I hear you are a vegetarian" I aways say, "no, I just don't eat meat." It's not a "trip" or a discipline. It's strictly because I feel better when I don't eat it plus the taste now disgusts me.

So why would I be interested in hyperbole? I couldn't possibly care less how much grease you choose to pack your veins with. However, I have heard meat can make one aggressive, mean-spirited, lacking in compassion . . .

 

[Kerrie]

i eat meat for the iron, mostly fish, chicken, and turkey about 3-4 times per week and have vegetarian dishes the rest of the week. when i was pregnant with both of my kids, the doctor recommended eating more meat as i was borderline anemic. yes, i agree that the mass production of animals is horrific, however, overpopulation has forced this. trying to change this is like trying to get hybrid cars in america.

i don't see my meat eating as a disgraceful thing at all because i am grateful to have food on my plate at all, let alone good food. beans, rice and pastas are a main staple in my diet as well as the different meat i choose to eat.

here where i live, many restaurants cater to the vegetarian lifestyle with respect. but i have to agree with Moonbear regarding the arrogance some vegetarians are lending to make it difficult for the majority just trying to do what they feel is right for their choices.

 

[singleton]

Quite often. I will only eat red meat from cattle though and a very small amount of pork. Won't eat fish/seafood, poultry, game, veal, eggs etc.

I was a vegetarian for oh, about a decade. It didn't work out too well [obviously]

My parents recipes are scottish so basically all have some form of beef heh. We eat lots of meat pies, shepherds pie, forfar bridies, meat loaf, steak, burgers, beef stew, roasts and mince yummy :rofl:
Yep guess I eat lots of meat. We do eat other foods too, but those are the basics... very much a meat and potatoes family :tongue2:

 

[Monique]

If anything, the onus is on the vegetarian to check the menu and make sure the restaurant in question is suitable for him/her.

So you sit down comfortably in a restaurant, order a drink, go read the menu, find out there is nothing vegetarian, walk out and find another place :uhh:

Or you look at the menu, realize there is even meat in all the salads, you have an ass-clown waiter who does not want to serve you, you wait and wait and wait in order to ask whether they can make something vegetarian, to find out that the blunt answer is 'No' and you find yourself looking for another place

BUT there is always Indian restaurants, a vegetarian's heaven

 

[PerennialII]

I go about 3-4 times a week ... try to stick with chicken and turkey as much as possible, but at times am carnivorous enough to enjoy a good steak. In my case I do quite a bit of sports and as such getting enough protein is a high priority, getting most of the energy carbs is a difficult diet, even though quite a necessity. Have at times tried to direct more towards vegetarian, but always fails when I get bored eating the required massive volumes .

 

[mattmns]

When you all are saying vegetarian. Do you mean just not eating meat? Or do you mean not eating any form of life? Plants, things that grow, etc, meaning that you only eat artificial food?

 

[Monique]

Recognize the word vegetable in the word vegetarian?

 

[hypnagogue]

So you sit down comfortably in a restaurant, order a drink, go read the menu, find out there is nothing vegetarian, walk out and find another place :uhh:

No, you ask to see the menu before you go in and get comfortable. (Of course I can't speak for any restaurants outside of the US, but in my experience most restaurants will have a menu available for perusing at the door, upon request. Many even have the menu displayed in the window.) I check out the menu before I go into a restaurant in most circumstances, although I do it to make sure I don't have to pay exorbitant prices more than anything else.

 

[Moonbear]

So you sit down comfortably in a restaurant, order a drink, go read the menu, find out there is nothing vegetarian, walk out and find another place :uhh:

Ask to see a menu before you request a table. I've done that many times, not in search of vegetarian cuisine, but just to find out if a new restaurant is a place I'm interested in eating and whether the price range is acceptable. Not to say I haven't walked out of restaurants for other reasons, including lack of a non-smoking section, or after seated, if they don't enforce their non-smoking policy or I find that the non-smoking section is only separated by a half wall from the smoking section, if I have to wait a very long time for the server to appear to take my order, or find that they overcook all the meat (usually some chain restaurant where they refuse to serve meat any less done than medium), or they seem to have run out of all the dishes I was considering ordering. When I walk out after being seated, I tell the waitperson my reason, and unless they are the reason, will still leave them a small tip for their trouble. If you walk out because they don't have any vegetarian options, let them know this. If restaurant owners find out people are walking away because their menu is lacking something that is in demand, they may consider changing the menu. They may not add a lot of variety if there is a limited demand, but perhaps they'd add one or two vegetarion selections so you could join your other friends for a meal. Of course, if you're the only one who says anything to them, then you'll probably just have to look for other places to eat that meet your tastes.

I've also found that if there is something you really do not wish to eat (such as meat products, including broths, etc), the easiest approach to get an honest answer out of a slacking server is to tell them you are very allergic to it and it's really important to know if any of the ingredients have it in it.

Les, "Diet for a Small Planet" contains many inaccurate numbers regarding animal feed requirements. Not the least of which is that humans are even less efficient at converting the energy in grains to muscle mass than are herbivores such as cattle, and one cow feeds a LOT of people.

 

[mattmns]

Recognize the word vegetable in the word vegetarian?

No I don't

But some vegetarians go over the edge, or are those vegans? This is why I wanted some clarity.

One good thing about this thread is that it has made me realize another argument against vegetarians and pro-life. Thanks.

 

[dextercioby]

Recognize the word vegetable in the word vegetarian?

Nope,but i recognize the word "arian"... :tongue2:

Anyway,it's cheaper to eat meat...

Daniel.

 

[Moonbear]

No I don't

But some vegetarians go over the edge, or are those vegans? This is why I wanted some clarity.

One good thing about this thread is that it has made me realize another argument against vegetarians and pro-life. Thanks.

Vegan means they eat NO animal products at all, which means no egg or dairy either, while vegetarian means they might include some animal proteins (some dairy or egg), though usually in very limited amounts. Some people still call themselves vegetarian even if they eat some fish, so the term does get confusing.