Commuting derivative/Integral (not FTC or Leibniz)

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In summary, the conversation discusses finding the Euler-Lagrange equations for slowly modulated surface gravity waves using the averaged Lagrangian. The Lagrangian is defined as the integral of L over theta, and the Euler-Lagrange equation is derived using this definition. The question is about the relation between two terms involving partial derivatives, but there is no simple relation between them. The possibility of assuming that L and its derivatives are periodic is also mentioned.
  • #1
nickthequick
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Hi,

I'm concerned with finding the Euler-Lagrange equations for slowly modulated surface gravity waves and, as is custom in this type of physical problem, I would like to consider the averaged Lagrangian defined as

[tex]\mathcal{L}=\frac{1}{2\pi}\int_0^{2\pi}Ld\theta [/tex]

where [tex]\theta[/tex] is defined as [tex]\theta_x=k [/tex] and [tex]\theta_t=-\omega [/tex] where k and $\omega$ represent wave number and frequency respectively, which can also be functions of space and time. My Lagrangian, which comes from the physics of the problem, is [tex]L=L(\theta;x,t)[/tex] and the Euler-Lagrange equation then becomes

[tex]\frac{\partial L}{\partial \theta}-\frac{\partial }{\partial x }\frac{\partial L}{\partial \theta_x}-\frac{\partial }{\partial t}\frac{\partial L}{\partial \theta_t}=0 [/tex]

If I integrate the above equation over [tex]\theta[/tex] from 0 to [tex]2\pi[/tex] and normalize, I know the first term goes to 0 because L is periodic (which again comes from the physics). So I'm trying to see if I can write the rest of equation in terms of the averaged Lagrangian, [tex]\mathcal{L}[/tex]. So my question is this, how does the term

[tex]\frac{1}{2\pi}\int_0^{2\pi}\frac{\partial }{\partial x }\frac{\partial L}{\partial \theta_x} \ d\theta[/tex]

relate to

[tex]\frac{\partial }{\partial x }\frac{\partial }{\partial \theta_x} \mathcal{L}[/tex]

Thanks!
Nick
 
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  • #2
I don't see any simple relation between the two.Although L is periodic, its second order derivatives may not be so.
 
  • #3
What if we make the additional assumption that L and all of its derivatives are periodic?
 

1. What is a commuting derivative in mathematics?

A commuting derivative is a term used in mathematics to describe the process of taking the derivative of a function with respect to one variable, while keeping all other variables constant. This is typically done in multivariable calculus when dealing with functions of multiple variables.

2. How is a commuting derivative different from the Fundamental Theorem of Calculus?

The Fundamental Theorem of Calculus (FTC) is a theorem that relates the concepts of differentiation and integration. It states that the derivative of an integral is equal to the original function. On the other hand, a commuting derivative is simply the process of taking a derivative while holding other variables constant, and is not directly related to integration.

3. What is the purpose of using a commuting derivative?

The purpose of using a commuting derivative is to simplify the process of finding derivatives of functions with multiple variables. By holding all other variables constant, we can focus on the changes in one variable at a time, making the process more manageable.

4. Can a commuting derivative be applied to any function?

Yes, a commuting derivative can be applied to any function that has multiple variables. However, the resulting derivative may be different depending on which variable is being held constant.

5. How is a commuting integral different from a regular integral?

A commuting integral is similar to a regular integral, but it involves taking the integral of a function while holding other variables constant. This is commonly used in multivariable calculus to calculate partial derivatives. A regular integral, on the other hand, involves finding the area under a curve and does not involve holding any variables constant.

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