Can gravity be a kinematic effect?

In summary, the conversation discusses the potential for a correlation effect in quantum mechanics that could manifest as a kinematic effect, similar to how spin is connected to kinematics. The question is raised whether mass could have a similar role, given its dual function as an inertial parameter and a quantum number determining how gravitation couples to a particle. The possibility of gravity being an emergent phenomenon, rather than a fundamental interaction, is also mentioned. The conversation ends with a request for thoughts on a "mass-statistics" connection and a reference to a related paper.
  • #1
tomkeus
77
0
One interesting thing in quantum mechanics is that there are correlation effects which can manifest themselves as dynamic effects, for example, as kinematics of fermions can make free electron model a good approximation for some phenomenons observed in solids, by effective cancellation of very strong Coulomb interactions.

Now, could it be possible that there is some other quantum number besides spin, which is connected with kinematics, namely mass, which creates strong correlation for large systems? I asked myself this question when I wondered why mass has dual role. It acts both as inertial parameter, both as a quantum number determining how gravitation couples to a particle. It's inertial role stems from Poincare group while dynamical role is currently based on phenomenology. On the other side, spin also gets its inertial role from Poincare group, but we have spin-statistics theorem connecting it to kinematics which is in term responsible for appearance of what are effectively dynamical effects throughout nature.

In a way, gravitation as kinematic correlation would put mass and spin, as two quantum numbers stemming from symmetry, on equal footing.

Now since I am a noob (busy one currently) I don't have enough knowledge to put some serious thought into this so I would like to here some thoughts from pros on this (and hopefully learn something), for example, are there any principles that tell us that gravity must be interaction in classic sense, ie. being transmitted by particle, corresponding to gauge potential etc.
 
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  • #2
Just to add something I think I wasn't particularly clear about, and that is how this effect could possibly work. Consider following, let's say this correlation is not playing with weak, strong and EM interaction but with another, a kind of gravity which is more similar to previous three, for example, it can be grouped under same SU(n) gauge program, it's energy scale is much more similar to previous three and it's renormalizable. All the differences we observe are the result of particle kinematics conditioned by their mass.
 
  • #3
Are you familiar with
http://arxiv.org/abs/0806.4239
On the emergence of time and gravity
Authors: Florian Girelli, Stefano Liberati, Lorenzo Sindoni
(Submitted on 26 Jun 2008)
In recent years, a new approach to these old problems has been gaining momentum and many authors have been advancing the idea that gravity could all in all be an intrinsically classic/large scale phenomenon similar to a condensed matter state made of many atoms [7]. In this sense gravity would not be a fundamental interaction but rather a large scale/numbers effect, something emergent from a quite different dynamics of some elementary quantum objects. In this sense, many examples can be brought up, starting from the causal set proposal [8], passing to group field theory [9] or the recent quantum graphity models [10] and other approaches (see e.g. [11]).
=======
 
  • #4
jal said:
Are you familiar with
http://arxiv.org/abs/0806.4239

No, but it's nice to see my reasoning as not totally stupid :smile:

Anyway, thanks for the reference and I would still like to hear what people think about some sort of "mass-statistics" connection.
 

1. What is a kinematic effect?

A kinematic effect is a phenomenon that occurs due to the motion of objects or particles, rather than being caused by external forces. In other words, it is a consequence of the movement or velocity of an object.

2. Is gravity considered a kinematic effect?

Yes, gravity can be considered a kinematic effect because it is the result of the acceleration of objects due to the force of gravity. This acceleration is directly related to an object's velocity and the distance it travels.

3. How is gravity related to kinematics?

Gravity is related to kinematics through Newton's laws of motion. These laws describe the relationships between an object's velocity, acceleration, and force. In particular, the force of gravity is responsible for the acceleration of objects towards the Earth's center, which is a key aspect of kinematics.

4. Can gravity be described using kinematic equations?

Yes, gravity can be described using kinematic equations. For example, the equation for calculating an object's velocity as it falls due to gravity is v = gt, where v is the velocity, g is the acceleration due to gravity (9.8 m/s^2), and t is the time. This equation is derived from the kinematic equation v = u + at, where u is the initial velocity (usually 0 for objects dropped from rest).

5. Are there any limitations to viewing gravity as a kinematic effect?

While gravity can be viewed as a kinematic effect, it is important to note that this is a simplified approach. In reality, gravity is a fundamental force that is intricately connected to the fabric of space and time. While kinematics can help us understand the motion of objects under the influence of gravity, it does not fully explain the underlying mechanisms of this force.

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