13 things that do not make sense

[Ivan Seeking]

1 The placebo effect...
2 The horizon problem...
3 Ultra-energetic cosmic rays...
4 Belfast homeopathy results...
5 Dark matter...
6 Viking's methane...
7 Tetraneutrons...
8 The Pioneer anomaly...
9 Dark Energy...
10 The Kuiper cliff...
11 The Wow signal...
12 Not-so-constant constants...
13 Cold fusion...

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/space/mg18524911.600

see also: https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=58374

 

[Dayle Record]

I read through all that article, and there were several things of interest. I postulate that the placebo effect, and the Belfast Homeopathy items have a link.

I once met a women, whom I considered to be really out of it, she was a UFO believer, this was in 1971. She had a lot of things to say about UFO visitation, but of all the things she discussed, one thing stayed with me. She did a ritual with the water she drank. She insisted that we needed to reinvigorate the water we consume by taking it out into the sunshine, and shaking it up, just as it would happen if it were running across a stream bed. She said that it added the life back to the water to do this. I thought that a charming concept, somewhat along the lines of blessing your food before you eat.

I know that attitude is important, always, but especially important in regards to things we consume. Maybe it properly forms the water within foods, if we pass them through a highly positive field of intent.

Yes, that's right, smile and walk away, smile and nod.

 

[hypatia]

To quote the article "This is all so maddeningly intriguing" .

 

[Chronos]

That's a good, and respectable list Ivan. Permit me these questions:
1] What purpose does 'existence' serve and why is it hierarchical?
2] What is sentience, and what purpose does it serve?

Those are the questions that really bother me. Until those are answered, I could give a rats alimentary canal less.

 

[russ_watters]

I read through all that article, and there were several things of interest. I postulate that the placebo effect, and the Belfast Homeopathy items have a link.

I agree and I don't see what doesn't make sense about them. And of course, you guys know my opinion of cold fusion. But the others seem like genuine pickles.

 

[cronxeh]

Not only do these 2 things have a link - as a matter of fact, all 13 have one underlying link. If you look at it this way, the human body is as big as the whole Universe in terms of the laws of physics -- everything that happens there, happens inside of us too.

 

[FredGarvin]

I would have thought "women" would have been somewhere on that list...

 

[Math Is Hard]

I would have thought "women" would have been somewhere on that list...

hilarious. I laughed until I stopped.

 

[PIT2]

So what do u think causes homeopathy to work?

 

[russ_watters]

So what do u think causes homeopathy to work?

As implied above and in the article, its the placebo effect.

And the reason I think the placebo effect is there is because people underestimate (or just don't want to accept) the power of the mind. Initially, it was thought that the placebo effect wasn't even real - ie, that people would say they felt better because they were supposed to feel better. But it has been found that it really does work. The problem some people have is that the placebo effect can affect body chemistry. But so what?: its well documented that "feeling good" isn't all in your head - you can actually change your body physiology with a change in attitude. I mean, when you get nervous, your heart pounds, you start to sweat, etc. Those are physical changes in the way your body is operating that happen stricly because of what you are thinking in your conscious mind. Given that, I don't see why its much of a leap to say that your coscious mind can affect your body chemistry in such a way as to mimic the effects of the drug.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I agree and I don't see what doesn't make sense about them. And of course, you guys know my opinion of cold fusion. But the others seem like genuine pickles.

...apparent anomaly formerly known as but not likely to be cold fusion.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Given that, I don't see why its much of a leap to say that your coscious mind can affect your body chemistry in such a way as to mimic the effects of the drug.

To me the point is that the body does release real drugs, it can heal itself, and we don't understand much how this happens. Are we are brute forcing medical treatments and missing the elegant, intrinsic solution? Cases of superhuman strength, the spontaneous and inexplicable remissions of disease, and naturally produced pain killers are all known to exist.

 

[PIT2]

As implied above and in the article, its the placebo effect.

Well if its basicly the same as the placebo effect, then why mention both homeopathy and the placebo effect in the 'top 13 things that don't make sense'?

I assume they will have figured out there is a difference between the two. Some simple experiments can make that clear, like giving 100 people normal water, 100 people homeopathic water. Tell them its just water (or tell them its medicine). According to the placebo effect, both should have the same results. But if the results differ, then homeopathy must be something else.

I remember reading something about the homeopathic water having some kind of 'memory' of what it came in contact with.

 

[russ_watters]

...apparent anomaly formerly known as but not likely to be cold fusion.

Well, the article was quite specific that it was referring to fusion.

Well if its basicly the same as the placebo effect, then why mention both homeopathy and the placebo effect in the 'top 13 things that don't make sense'?

Dunno. I guess that's number 14.

 

[PIT2]

I wonder if the placebo effect also works as food.

Give a person a pill and tell him it contains enough proteins, vitamins, etc. to last a month. Then see if he has gained any weight a week later.

 

[brewnog]

I wonder if the placebo effect also works as food.

Give a person a pill and tell him it contains enough proteins, vitamins, etc. to last a month. Then see if he has gained any weight a week later.

Mmmm, I wonder indeed...

 

[Curious3141]

As a doctor (and a rationalist), the placebo effect really does bother me. Not the psychological component (like reporting pain scores), or even the physical parameters that might conceivably be susceptible to biofeedback modulation. The placebo effect has been observed to have far more mysterious effects, like actual tumor regression without "real" medical intervention. The converse of the placebo effect (the "nocebo" effect) has also been described, and is equally intriguing.

Medical professionals often use the placebo effect to add "that little something" to medical treatment. Patients who are convinced a particular drug or procedure will work in their case fare better than patients who are skeptical or mistrustful. I've also used the effect in a case where a patient was practically addicted to opioid painkillers and was insisting on regular injections to "ease his pain". The two obvious options were to leave him hanging unhappy and disruptive, or to give into him, which would just perpetuate the addiction-withdrawal cycle. I chose the third option, I shot him up with a little sterile saline and told him it was an opioid. Lo and behold, he became as content as a baby.

 

[mapper]

Not only do these 2 things have a link - as a matter of fact, all 13 have one underlying link. If you look at it this way, the human body is as big as the whole Universe in terms of the laws of physics -- everything that happens there, happens inside of us too.

I like this.

 

[russ_watters]

The placebo effect (or a variation of it) does work on food. Its the reason why nutritionists suggest eating between meals and eating smaller meals: if there is always a little food in your stomach, you trick your body into thinking it can burn more calories for the same net caloric intake.

 

[tdunc]

It has been shown that a persons level of stress has an impact on the diameter of your blood vessels, so that when you are stressed they become more constricted and blood flow is restricted. Thats how you get the "scared to death" senerio which is very real, people have heart attacks. So in that sense no chemical release has been linked to constriction of the blood vessels, why it happens nobody knows. Perhaps similar benefits come from being in a well state of mind and cons from being stressed. The placebo effect is basically showing us that people with a sense of well being are more healthy, and the reason they have a sense of well being is because they think that whatever they took is good for them, contrary to not taking a drug and being worried or stressed about their condition.

 

[PIT2]

I did a quick search to see if homeopathy is the same as the placebo effect.

http://www.yourlifevitamins.com/healthnotes.php?org=ylv&page=newswire/hnwire_2000-08-24_3.cfm

Patients in the homeopathy group had an overall improvement of nasal obstruction averaging 21%, compared with only 2% in the placebo group. The effect observed for the homeopathic remedies was similar to that found with topical steroids in other trials.

The combined results of the four trials showed a more positive picture: homeopathic remedies produced a reduction in symptoms of 28%, compared with only 3% reduction from placebo.

If a remedy is so dilute that not one molecule is present, then scientists believe nothing is present. Therefore, administering such a remedy could only produce a placebo effect. However, using sound scientific methods, these researchers have shown that such dilute remedies are better than placebo.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=73571

“Many studies of homeopathy examine whether the benefits claimed for this treatment result from a placebo effect — that is, from the belief
of patients in the treatment rather than the treatment itself. In
1997, the Lancet published an analysis of approximately 100
controlled, randomized studies. The analysis concluded that homeopathy
appeared to have results that went beyond the placebo effect. However,
researchers determined there wasn’t enough evidence to conclude that
homeopathic treatment was effective. There is little published
evidence that homeopathy can effectively treat specific diseases or
conditions.”

 

[Danger]

I wonder if the placebo effect also works as food.

Give a person a pill and tell him it contains enough proteins, vitamins, etc. to last a month. Then see if he has gained any weight a week later.

I can't see this happening. Someone could be convinced that their nutritional needs are being met, and probably feel fine, but they would be running off of their natural body reserves. Gaining weight with no intake would be a violation of thermodynamics. Eventually, he'd croak.