Photoelectric Effect Saturation Current


by embphysics
Tags: current, effect, photoelectric, saturation
embphysics
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#1
Nov2-13, 07:21 PM
P: 67
Hello all,

I have been searching the internet for quite some time now, and have been unsuccessful in finding some article that will explain WHY there is a saturation current. All I have found is the definition of the saturation current. I don't understand why the current becomes constant as you put the emitting electrode at a greater and greater positive electric potential.
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embphysics
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#2
Nov2-13, 07:31 PM
P: 67
To add to the above post, I keep finding sources say that all of the electrons get collected on the one plate, and that is why there is a saturation current. This, however, does not make much sense.
Drakkith
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#3
Nov2-13, 07:42 PM
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As light strikes the emitting electrode, electrons are ejected. But not all of the ejected electrons are collected at collecting electrode since they don't all get ejected in the same direction. Increasing the positive potential of the collecting electrode attracts these electrons to it (the collecting electrode has a positive potential, not the emitting electrode), and after a certain amount of potential all the ejected electrons are being collected and a further increase in potential does nothing.

embphysics
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#4
Nov2-13, 07:46 PM
P: 67

Photoelectric Effect Saturation Current


Why does increasing the potential to more positive values not affect anything? From my understanding, I = V/R; so, an increase in voltage would cause an increase in current.
Drakkith
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#5
Nov2-13, 07:52 PM
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Ah, I see the issue. The current is solely from the ejected electrons being captured by the collecting electrode. The collecting electrode is simply kept at a positive potential. No current is flowing through it unless it picks up electrons ejected from the emitting electrode. So if you keep the intensity of the light striking the emitting electrode steady, then the current is also steady at some max value. Once the positive potential of the collecting electrode is enough to collect all of the ejected electrons, increasing it further does nothing as there are no more electrons to collect.
ZapperZ
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#6
Nov2-13, 09:07 PM
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Quote Quote by embphysics View Post
Why does increasing the potential to more positive values not affect anything? From my understanding, I = V/R; so, an increase in voltage would cause an increase in current.
You have water coming out of a faucet. Initially, you had a very small container such a bottle that had a very small opening. So you could collect some of the water, but not all. Some of the water spilled out of the opening of the bottle and you couldn't collect that.

So you chose a bottle with a bigger opening. You now collect more since you lost a lot less of the water.

And you continue to get a bigger and bigger opening. Eventually, you got a bucket where you've collected everything that came out of the faucet. Now, do you think by getting an even bigger bucket, you are going to collect even more water? You've collected everything that's flowing out of the faucet per unit time as it is. Why would having a bigger and bigger bucket makes any difference?

The only difference now, if you want to get even more water per unit time, is to open the faucet more i.e. increase the intensity of light hitting the cathode, so that the amount of charge per unit time being emitted increases.

Zz.
embphysics
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#7
Nov3-13, 05:01 AM
P: 67
I don't understand, why does the electrons stay on the collecting electrode? Why don't they move through the circuit, come back to the emitting electrode, and repeat the process? And from my understanding, by increasing the voltage, you are simply increasing the rate at which this process happens, that is, the current.
ZapperZ
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#8
Nov3-13, 05:34 AM
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Quote Quote by embphysics View Post
I don't understand, why does the electrons stay on the collecting electrode? Why don't they move through the circuit, come back to the emitting electrode, and repeat the process? And from my understanding, by increasing the voltage, you are simply increasing the rate at which this process happens, that is, the current.
What electrode? Why would electrons "stay" on an electrode?

This now appears to be a different question that you started with!

Zz.
embphysics
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#9
Nov3-13, 05:58 AM
P: 67
I am terribly sorry. I am simply trying to understand the photoelectric effect, and why a constant current is attained when you put the collecting electrode at a higher positive potential relative to the emitting electrode. Generally, whenever I have read about the photoelectric effect, the experimental set-up consists of a battery connected to two electrodes contained within a vacuum chamber.
ZapperZ
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#10
Nov3-13, 06:33 AM
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Quote Quote by embphysics View Post
I am terribly sorry. I am simply trying to understand the photoelectric effect, and why a constant current is attained when you put the collecting electrode at a higher positive potential relative to the emitting electrode. Generally, whenever I have read about the photoelectric effect, the experimental set-up consists of a battery connected to two electrodes contained within a vacuum chamber.
It is, but I can't figure out what you are asking now. Why are you having trouble understanding even my water faucet analogy?

Zz.
embphysics
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#11
Nov3-13, 07:26 AM
P: 67
Well, in the experiment, the ammeter is what measures the current between the electrodes. But how can it even measure a current if none of the electrons ever go through ammeter, because all of the electrons are collected in the "bucket" and never go down the drain, that is, never go through to the rest of the circuit?
ZapperZ
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#12
Nov3-13, 08:42 AM
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You are missing something here.

There is a completely, closed loop of current when there's electron flowing from the anode to the cathode. Without any photoelectrons, there is an open circuit between the anode and the cathode. The batter is simply applying positive potential to the anode. But without any electrons hitting the anode, there's no current flow. Look at the circuit for the typical photoelectric effect carefully.

Zz.
sophiecentaur
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#13
Nov3-13, 08:47 AM
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Quote Quote by embphysics View Post
Why does increasing the potential to more positive values not affect anything? From my understanding, I = V/R; so, an increase in voltage would cause an increase in current.
If you are 'stuck on' I = V/R, then this could be your problem. You cannot expect a photo diode to behave like an Ohmic Resistor (i.e. it's not a piece of metal). It can be described better as a 'current source', which means the current is (more or less) independent of the applied PD. Why? Only one electron can be emitted per photon arriving - that is the limit. The rest of the electrons on the surface of the cathode would need several kV to tear them off but the thought experiment doesn't go that far.
embphysics
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#14
Nov3-13, 09:33 AM
P: 67
Hmm, I am still not certain if I understand. What if we did not illuminate the electrode, but only applied a potential difference, would there be a current?
ZapperZ
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#15
Nov3-13, 09:48 AM
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Quote Quote by embphysics View Post
Hmm, I am still not certain if I understand. What if we did not illuminate the electrode, but only applied a potential difference, would there be a current?
No. You have an open circuit(*).


There's no connection to complete the circuit between the anode (collector plate) and cathode (emitter plate). You have a vacuum there!

Zz.

(*) This assumes that we have not gotten into the field-emission regime, which is typically the case in a standard photoelectric effect experiment.
embphysics
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#16
Nov3-13, 09:53 AM
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Oh, so there is a gap between the anode and cathode, and the only way electrons can go from one plate to the other is if light strikes a photon? So, the positive potential can't actually generate a current, but can only "help" the electrons move more quickly?
ZapperZ
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#17
Nov3-13, 10:11 AM
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Quote Quote by embphysics View Post
Oh, so there is a gap between the anode and cathode, and the only way electrons can go from one plate to the other is if light strikes a photon? So, the positive potential can't actually generate a current, but can only "help" the electrons move more quickly?
The electrons coming out of the cathode almost go in all different directions. Read what Drakkith said in his post (#3). If you want to collect all of them, you have to apply a potential so that the electrons are attracted to the anode. The higher the potential, the more electrons are attracted to it. You increase the potential NOT because you want the electrons to move to it quickly, but you want to collect those that are going in the 'wrong' direction away from the anode. At some point, the potential is large enough that all those stray electrons are corralled to move towards the anode.

Zz.
embphysics
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#18
Nov3-13, 10:51 AM
P: 67
Okay, I understand now. Thank you all for the help, I greatly appreciate it.


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