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Can photon capture give electron and positron opposite charge

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Salman2
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May5-13, 07:09 AM
P: 95
Is it possible, in theory, that the physical entity electron e(-) and its charged opposite positron e(+) both obtained their respective electric charges by simultaneous capture, by a more fundamental quantum entity (call it FQE), of a quantum of photon with zero rest mass having equal amounts of (-) and (+) charge internally present ? From Law of Conservation of Charge it is allowed that charge can be created or destroyed, but only if simultaneously occur positive and negative pairs.

Thus, this simple picture:

FQE + photon ---> e(-) + e(+)

So, my question is, does theory allow for such a fundamental quantum entity (FQE) in early history of universe that could capture a photon quantum to yield simultaneously the creation of the electron e(-) and positron e(+) ?

I'm not able to find any useful explanation that does not beg the question why electron and positron have a charge. Thanks for any help to clarify any misunderstanding I have on the issue.
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Vanadium 50
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May5-13, 10:04 AM
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What is a "more fundamental quantum entity"? I never heard of such a thing. If it exists in the mainstream physics literature, please point me to it. If it does not, please remember that we do not discuss personal theories here.
OmCheeto
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May5-13, 11:08 AM
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Quote Quote by Vanadium 50 View Post
What is a "more fundamental quantum entity"? I never heard of such a thing. If it exists in the mainstream physics literature, please point me to it. If it does not, please remember that we do not discuss personal theories here.
I updated my "personal theory" of photons shortly after arriving at PF:

Quote Quote by OmCheeto's Second Thoughts on the Nature of Photons
February 5, 2008

Well, we all know that's not quite right.1
But the pseudo-monopoles in em waves obviously account for dark matter.
It's all about multidimensional space.
see you in 13 years with my next theory
I always thought that photons were simply electrons and positrons, in a never ending annihilation, creation, type thingy.

Then I discovered:
Other pairs produced could be a muon and anti-muon or a tau and anti-tau.
poop. there went my theory........

----------------------
1. referring to my first "personal theory" of "the true nature of photons" published in 1995. (on my own web page, as, gosh darn it, these "know it all" scientists wouldn't know the new Einstein if he were sitting in their lap.)
ps. Any idea when we will have a collider with the potential of 1010 Gev? That experiment will prove me correct! Bwah! Ha ha ha ha ha........
pps. Does anyone know what 2008 + 13 equals? I'm kinda bad at math.
ppps. I count 27 crackpot points. Prove me wrong!
pppps. Ok to delete, infract, and ban for the next 7 days, as I'm on vacation, and will not shut up until someone slaps me.

Salman2
#4
May5-13, 04:37 PM
P: 95
Can photon capture give electron and positron opposite charge

Quote Quote by Vanadium 50 View Post
What is a "more fundamental quantum entity"? I never heard of such a thing. If it exists in the mainstream physics literature, please point me to it. If it does not, please remember that we do not discuss personal theories here.
Thanks for comment. I do not have any personal theory on the topic, only a question of interest. An internet search yielded this paper:

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1111.0191v1.pdf

This paper discusses the production of electron e(-) and positron e(+) pairs when a photon interacts with the magnetic field of a neutron star. It is known that there can be a quantum of magnetic flux (QMF) so, let me rephrase my OP question to this possibility:

(QMF) + photon ---> e(-) + e(+) pair production.

So, is it possible in theory that the capture of a photon by a quantum of magnetic flux within the magnetosphere of a neutron star is the origin of the opposite charge for the electron e(-) and positron e(+) ? In cosmology, would the existence of a neutron star and photon be prior to existence of electron and positron ?
ZapperZ
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May5-13, 04:43 PM
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Quote Quote by Salman2 View Post
Thanks for comment. I do not have any personal theory on the topic, only a question of interest. An internet search yielded this paper:

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1111.0191v1.pdf

This paper discusses the production of electron e(-) and positron e(+) pairs when a photon interacts with the magnetic field of a neutron star. It is known that there can be a quantum of magnetic flux (QMF) so, let me rephrase my OP question to this possibility:

(QMF) + photon ---> e(-) + e(+) pair production.

So, is it possible in theory that the capture of a photon by a quantum of magnetic flux within the magnetosphere of a neutron star is the origin of the opposite charge for the electron e(-) and positron e(+) ? In cosmology, would the existence of a neutron star and photon be prior to existence of electron and positron ?
But we can create pair production without the need of such magnetic field of a neutron star! So without even considering the validity of the idea that you are citing, your conclusion about the "origin" of e- and e+ is already erroneous because there are other ways to create them!

Zz.
Salman2
#6
May6-13, 08:01 AM
P: 95
Quote Quote by ZapperZ View Post
But we can create pair production without the need of such magnetic field of a neutron star! So without even considering the validity of the idea that you are citing, your conclusion about the "origin" of e- and e+ is already erroneous because there are other ways to create them!Zz.
Thanks for comment. So, of these others ways for pair production, which one(s) top the list as the most likely for "origin" of e- and e+ ?

My OP question concerns the topic of the "origin" of e- and e+. So, is the current understanding that there were multiple pathways that occurred during early history of universe to create e- and e+ ?

Would not the Law of Conservation of Charge require that e- (electron) and e+ (positron) must have been created simultaneously in the early universe ?

Also, is there any physical reason the magnetic quantum flux of a single neutron interacting with a photon could not be the origin of e- and e+ soon after the origin of universe ? As described in the paper referenced in the above post, once an initial pair production occurs, it can lead to a future cascade of secondary pair production events.
ZapperZ
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May6-13, 08:14 AM
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Quote Quote by Salman2 View Post
Thanks for comment. So, of these others ways for pair production, which one(s) top the list as the most likely for "origin" of e- and e+ ?

My OP question concerns the topic of the "origin" of e- and e+. So, is the current understanding that there were multiple pathways that occurred during early history of universe to create e- and e+ ?

Would not the Law of Conservation of Charge require that e- (electron) and e+ (positron) must have been created simultaneously in the early universe ?

Also, is there any physical reason the magnetic quantum flux of a single neutron interacting with a photon could not be the origin of e- and e+ soon after the origin of universe ? As described in the paper referenced in the above post, once an initial pair production occurs, it can lead to a future cascade of secondary pair production events.
We commonly obtain pair production from shooting gamma rays at a dense material, say Be. Are you aware of the mechanism required to create such a pair production, i.e. the Feynman diagram of this process? Maybe you should try to learn that first.

There are other conservation laws that are required to create pair production, not just conservation of charge. There's a conservation of momentum, which is why pair production always occurs in the vicinity of a massive particle, to take up the necessary momentum (again, refer to the Feynman diagram of this process).

Thirdly, there's nothing to prevent the creation of other leptons, if the energy is large enough. Why are you only considering e-p pairs? Why not mu+ and mu- pair? There's nothing to prevent the creation of those muon pairs as well. What's so special about the e-p pair?

I don't quite understand what you are aiming for here. Again, this has the earmarks of a working out a "personal theory" without understanding the basic physics first. Using a paper that is citing an astronomical observation that has a higher degree of uncertainty as the basis of your idea is not the strongest thing someone can do, especially when you are ignoring the plethora of experimental evidence that we already have here in our labs on earth.

Zz.
Salman2
#8
May6-13, 01:49 PM
P: 95
Quote Quote by ZapperZ View Post
...There's nothing to prevent the creation of those muon pairs as well. What's so special about the e-p pair?
Thanks for the reply. I ask about e- and e+ pair production first because they are stable whereas muon and tau are not.

Quote Quote by Zapper
I don't quite understand what you are aiming for here.
Only an explanation for the origin of the charge associated with stable e- and e+. Is there a physical reason why charge origin cannot be result of an interaction of a high energy photon (gamma ray) with a quantum of magnetic flux associated with a neutron ? This is not a personal theory, only a question. If the answer is 'we don't know' that would be fine, or no that is not physically possible, with explanation, that would be fine also.


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