Who is the most overrated president in US history?

[Benzoate]

This thread has gone so far I don't want to get back into it, but just to make sure here -- you know that second quote wasn't from me, right? You listed after a quote from me and didn't have who it came from cited in it.

I will say this, though - that first line is a very strange thing to see any American, much less you, writing.

Also, just for the record, Lincoln makes both my top 5 and bottom 5 Presidents list. I don't agree with even half of what Benzoate said in his first post (and most of the rest of the thread is just crap), but the basic point that people gloss-over the more ominous things Lincoln did during the Civil War is sound.

So you disagree with me that Lincoln had tens and thousands of men who disagree with him thrown in jail ? Hundreds and hundreds of news papers where shut down or closed who spoke out against Lincoln's policies. Lincoln invaded the southern states without the consent of congress even though the southern states did not attack Lincoln. Like it or not , Lincoln made some not so flattering statements about my ancestors and he wanted to deport my Ancestors to Liberia . Thank you John wilkes booth for shooting that crank. Like it or not , at least 620,000 soldiers and 80,000 civilians lost their lives for an unnecessary war. And I'm supposed to worshiped this guy when he ignored and violated my constitution severally times during his presidency. Speeches and speaking eloquently to the public does not make a person a good president. Its the actions of the president I truly care about that will affect the welfare of my nation.

Ron Paul '08!

 

[Evo]

So you disagree with me that Lincoln had tens and thousands of men who disagree with him thrown in jail ? Hundreds and hundreds of news papers where shut down or closed who spoke out against Lincoln's policies. Lincoln invaded the southern states without the consent of congress even though the southern states did not attack Lincoln. Like it or not , Lincoln made some not so flattering statements about my ancestors and he wanted to deport my Ancestors to Liberia . Thank you John wilkes booth for shooting that crank. Like it or not , at least 620,000 soldiers and 80,000 civilians lost their lives for an unnecessary war. And I'm supposed to worshiped this guy when he ignored and violated my constitution severally times during his presidency. Speeches and speaking eloquently to the public does not make a person a good president. Its the actions of the president I truly care about that will affect the welfare of my nation.

Ron Paul '08!

Sorry,now that I've read your posts, I have to agree with the others. Lincoln wasn't a saint, but he surely was not guilty of the things you have accused him of. That was my mistake, looking at just one post of historical references and not knowing what else you had posted, I stand corrected.

You're black and you suport Ron Paul? You do know that the KKK and David Duke endorse him for his anti black beliefs?

 

[Benzoate]

Sorry,now that I've read your posts, I have to agree with the others. Lincoln wasn't a saint, but he surely was not guilty of the things you have accused him of. That was my mistake, looking at just one post of historical references and not knowing what else you had posted, I stand corrected.

You're black and you suport Ron Paul? You do know that the KKK and David Duke endorse him for his anti black beliefs?

There is no other candidate like Ron Paul. You think I'm supposed to support Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton? I did not want to go there, but that a very condescending remarke you just made. Just because David Duke endorses ron paul does not mean ron paul accepts the endorsement. There are black people working on his campaign. By your line of reasoning , you shouldn't vote for obama because he is a descendant of of jefferson davis, the president of the C.S.A. who probably supported slavery You probably one of those people who thinks blacks are I bet you expect me to vote democrat just because I black. Well I got news for you . I'm no sheep . I looked at the issues not the political party. Ron paul is the only candidate that mentioned about the inequalities in the prison system, where crack users received harsher sentences than cocaine users. Why would I support any of those other non-sensical candidates like Barack Obama who isn't even explicit about his plans to withdraw troops from iraq, like the other robotic candidates. Ron paul said he would immediately withdraw troops from iraq. And yes , as president his executive privileges would allow him to withdraw troops from Iraq.

 

[Benzoate]

Sorry,now that I've read your posts, I have to agree with the others. Lincoln wasn't a saint, but he surely was not guilty of the things you have accused him of. That was my mistake, looking at just one post of historical references and not knowing what else you had posted, I stand corrected.

You're black and you suport Ron Paul? You do know that the KKK and David Duke endorse him for his anti black beliefs?

Can you show explicit citations of Ron paul saying statements that are deemed as anti-black?

 

[CaptainQuasar]

Can you show explicit citations of Ron paul saying statements that are deemed as anti-black?

Via http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/vol16/issue9/pols.paul.side.html":

“Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5% of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market, individual liberty and the end of welfare and affirmative action.”

“…we are told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, it is hardly irrational. Black men commit murders, rapes, robberies, muggings and burglaries all out of proportion to their numbers.”

“…University of Texas affirmative action law professor Barbara Jordan is a fraud. Everything from her imitation British accent, to her supposed expertise in law, to her distinguished career in public service, is made up. If there were ever a modern case of the empress without clothes, this is it. She is the archetypical half-educated victimologist, yet her race and sex protect her from criticism.”

(That would be the same http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Jordan" , the black Barbara Jordan, who had the temerity and uppityness to read out indictments against Richard Nixon on the floor of the Congress in the 70's.)

To quote http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=74978161-f730-43a2-91c3-de262573a129" from this January, admittedly a liberal magazine:

“A Special Issue on Racial Terrorism” analyzes the Los Angeles riots of 1992: “Order was only restored in L.A. when it came time for the blacks to pick up their welfare checks three days after rioting began. ... What if the checks had never arrived? No doubt the blacks would have fully privatized the welfare state through continued looting. But they were paid off and the violence subsided.”

The November 1990 issue of the Political Report had kind words for David Duke.

This newsletter describes Martin Luther King Jr. as “a world-class adulterer” who “seduced underage girls and boys” and “replaced the evil of forced segregation with the evil of forced integration.”

…

An October 1990 edition of the Political Report ridicules black activists, led by Al Sharpton, for demonstrating at the Statue of Liberty in favor of renaming New York City after Martin Luther King. The newsletter suggests that “Welfaria,” “Zooville,” “Rapetown,” “Dirtburg,” and “Lazyopolis” would be better alternatives--and says, “Next time, hold that demonstration at a food stamp bureau or a crack house.”

These newsletters didn't have any author listed at the time they were published, so of course Paul says that he didn't write them himself. I guess he just allowed things like this to get published in his name, repeatedly, over the course of decades.

And this is only from what people in the press have been able to recover. Paul claims that he's lost all the copies of the other issues of the Reports.

And I wouldn't expect you to vote for Obama just because you're black, Benzoate. I've voted for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Keyes" in the past, a Republican. (Though I'm not black myself, I'm just saying that I don't automatically expect blacks to be Democrats.)

⚛​

 

[Benzoate]

Via http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/vol16/issue9/pols.paul.side.html":

(That would be the same http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Jordan" , the black Barbara Jordan, who had the temerity and uppityness to read out indictments against Richard Nixon on the floor of the Congress in the 70's.)

To quote http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=74978161-f730-43a2-91c3-de262573a129" from this January, admittedly a liberal magazine:

These newsletters didn't have any author listed at the time they were published, so of course Paul says that he didn't write them himself. I guess he just allowed things like this to get published in his name, repeatedly, over the course of decades.

And this is only from what people in the press have been able to recover. Paul claims that he's lost all the copies of the other issues of the Reports.

And I wouldn't expect you to vote for Obama just because you're black, Benzoate. I've voted for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Keyes" in the past, a Republican. (Though I'm not black myself, I'm just saying that I don't automatically expect blacks to be Democrats.)

⚛​

Just because he supports affirmative action doesn't make him anti-black. I don't support affirmative action because it is very condescending towards blacks , hispanics , native americans and women; and it excludes asians. And those articles you quote are just smear campaigns. Did even bother to look up the fact that Ron paul has the highest percentages of black votes among the republicans? Bill clinton actually supported a bill that would not end the prison discrepancies between crack users and cocaine user: (i.e. crack users receiving harsher drug penalties than cocaine users) I high proportion of minorities use crack and a high proportion of whites use cocaine. Blacks get 10 years for using crack. Whites get a year for using cocaine. Ron paul acknowledges the prison discrepancies. Until I hear , with my own ears , say racist remarks , then I would call him a racist. BTW, don't newspapers usually record conversations and then put there quotes in a newspaper? If they are so sure that ron paul really made the racists remarks, then why not just play ron paul saying those racist remarks?

Not to mentioned that Ron paul is the only republican who accepted an invitation from tavis smiley to attend a debate on so called 'black issues'

 

[CaptainQuasar]

I don't understand much of your response there, Benzoate. I didn't say anything about his stance on affirmative action. (And anyways - supporting affirmative action would not make him anti-black.)

And I'm not saying that he just made racist remarks out loud. I'm saying he printed racist remarks in a publication with his name on it, without at the time giving the name of anyone else who might've written them.

Those articles I linked to are not “just smear campaigns”, they are entirely factual and as far as I know not disputed by the Ron Paul presidential campaign. Ron Paul does not deny that exactly those words were printed in the Ron Paul Survival Report and the Ron Paul Freedom Report and the other newsletters, he claims that someone else wrote them and that even though he disagrees with them now and disagreed with them at the time, they somehow got into a newsletter with his name at the top of every page.

⚛​

 

[Benzoate]

I don't understand much of your response there, Benzoate. I didn't say anything about his stance on affirmative action. (And anyways - supporting affirmative action would not make him anti-black.)

And I'm not saying that he just made racist remarks out loud. I'm saying he printed racist remarks in a publication with his name on it, without at the time giving the name of anyone else who might've written them.

Those articles I linked to are not “just smear campaigns”, they are entirely factual and as far as I know not disputed by the Ron Paul presidential campaign. Ron Paul does not deny that exactly those words were printed in the Ron Paul Survival Report and the Ron Paul Freedom Report and the other newsletters, he claims that someone else wrote them and that even though he disagrees with them now and disagreed with them at the time, they somehow got into a newsletter with his name at the top of every page.

⚛​

Sorry I thought you said Ron paul was anti-affirmaitve action. My apologies

Like I said before, If doctor paul were truly a racist, he wouldn't have accepted the invitation to the debate at howard university from Tavis Smiley. Nor would he be the republican who has the highest number of votes among black people. Black people are working on Doctor's paul campaign as well. You cannot read everything in print written about someone and accepted as true. Doctor Paul has said many times that those articles written about him are not true. And I believe him . As I said before, if he were a racist , then he would not acknowledge the difference in prison sentencing for crack users and cocaine users.

CaptainQuasor, why do you have a beef with me? You say everything I post was written by crackpots and You haven't even bother to look up my sources nor observed the research methods of the authors I've listed.

 

[Benzoate]

I don't understand much of your response there, Benzoate. I didn't say anything about his stance on affirmative action. (And anyways - supporting affirmative action would not make him anti-black.)

you are twisting my words around. I never said that ron paul is anti-black if he doesn't support affirmative action. I said many so called 'black leaders' and other vermin in the media would label anyone who does not support affirmative action as anti-black.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

CaptainQuasor, why do you have a beef with me? You say everything I post was written by crackpots and You haven't even bother to look up my sources nor observed the research methods of the authors I've listed.

Yes, I do have a beef with you, because you have claimed that Abraham Lincoln was Saddam Hussein and he ordered the slaughter of innocent civilians and ordered the pillaging of Southern towns. Do you really not understand why someone would object to you saying that?

The reason I put up those Ron Paul quotes is to show you that when someone demands citiations, it really is possible to go and get something that actually proves what was said. You asked for something that showed Ron Paul making racist remarks and I went and got you exactly that, published by mainstream news organizations.

I have not said “everything you post was written by crackpots.” At the very beginning I pointed out that one author you mentioned is someone who wants to re-establish the Confederacy. But you ignored that and seemed to be hoping that it would just go away. All you had to say was “Yes, that guy is definitely a biased source, I'm sorry. I should acknowledge his connection to the League of the South when I post things based on what he says.”

And you still haven't provided any proof about these orders you claim Lincoln gave. I know that lots of people died during the Civil War; the stuff you're saying in response doesn't answer my questions. I'm not going to go and read every book you mention just because you feel like you don't even have to tell us when he actually ordered the slaughter of innocent civilians.

If you were wrong about that just say “I'm sorry, I misspoke. He didn't order the slaughter of civilians, I'm just saying that lots of people died from the orders he gave.” That's all you have to do. (Though of course, I would point out that you should then consider anyone who has given orders in any war to be the same as Saddam Hussein.)

⚛​

 

[Evo]

This thread has outlived it's usefulness. Thanks CQ for your work in this thread.