Is practical mind control feasible?


by MathJakob
Tags: control, feasible, mind, practical
MathJakob
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#1
Sep21-13, 02:11 PM
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Evo don't you dare close this thread I want at least one answer as to why it can or can't work :P

So sinse we can strap electrodes to our heads and with nothing but thought, we can make something happen, whether it's moving a rats tail, moving a ball bearing or making someone elses finger twitch. Mind control in that sense is possible and I'm sure most of you hear know what I'm talking about.

The only issue with this is it isn't practical for everyday use, what good is it to have to strap electrodes to our heads, with computers all around us trasmitting our brain waves through a computer and all that crap... not very practical. So now my question, just like computers can pick up on wifi signals, would it ever be possible for humans to do the things they do today, but wirelessly?

When we think about something, do those brain waves leave through the scalp or do they stay confined in the brain and it's just the electrodes picking up on the vibrations or something?
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zoobyshoe
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Sep21-13, 02:40 PM
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Quote Quote by MathJakob View Post
When we think about something, do those brain waves leave through the scalp or do they stay confined in the brain and it's just the electrodes picking up on the vibrations or something?
If you do some thorough research on EEG's, I think a lot of your questions will be answered. Or, at least you'll be able to ask more focused questions.
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Sep21-13, 02:40 PM
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Quote Quote by MathJakob View Post

So sinse we can strap electrodes to our heads and with nothing but thought, we can make something happen, whether it's moving a rats tail, moving a ball bearing or making someone elses finger twitch. Mind control in that sense is possible and I'm sure most of you hear know what I'm talking about.
Please post the valid research where with nothing but thought any of those things are done. I think you've misunderstood something.

The only issue with this is it isn't practical for everyday use, what good is it to have to strap electrodes to our heads, with computers all around us trasmitting our brain waves through a computer and all that crap... not very practical. So now my question, just like computers can pick up on wifi signals, would it ever be possible for humans to do the things they do today, but wirelessly?
Not the way humans exist today.

When we think about something, do those brain waves leave through the scalp or do they stay confined in the brain and it's just the electrodes picking up on the vibrations or something?
External electrodes can pick up brain waves, they do not have to be implanted anymore.

Also, when a thread is nonsense, has no value, has been answered, is going nowhere, gone off topic, etc... it will be closed or deleted.

MathJakob
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Sep21-13, 02:51 PM
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Is practical mind control feasible?


Quote Quote by Evo View Post
Please post the valid research where with nothing but thought any of those things are done. I think you've misunderstood something.
The research

and I quote "Researchers at Harvard University have created the first noninvasive brain-to-brain interface (BBI) between a human… and a rat. Simply by thinking the appropriate thought, the BBI allows the human to control the rat’s tail."


Research paper: doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0060410 - ”Non-Invasive Brain-to-Brain Interface (BBI): Establishing Functional Links between Two Brains” (Open-access)
Greg Bernhardt
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Sep21-13, 03:05 PM
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Students play video game with their minds at Duke

Sam Murphy of Cary, 14, stared at the screen with intense concentration. Her onscreen paddle quickly shot down to intercept a ball about to pass by.

The video game was Pong, but this is hardly the classic arcade version. Sam was motionless.

She was controlling the paddle with her mind.

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/06/...#storylink=cpy
http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/06/...game-with.html
Evo
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Sep21-13, 03:11 PM
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Quote Quote by MathJakob View Post
The research

and I quote "Researchers at Harvard University have created the first noninvasive brain-to-brain interface (BBI) between a human… and a rat. Simply by thinking the appropriate thought, the BBI allows the human to control the rat’s tail."


Research paper: doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0060410 - ”Non-Invasive Brain-to-Brain Interface (BBI): Establishing Functional Links between Two Brains” (Open-access)
They are connected via equipment on the heads of the human and the rat and the signals are sent via ultrasound from the human's headgear to the rat's headgear (read the article for the technical explanation).

Now where is the research on the ball bearing and making another human's finger twitch?

So, the answer to your question is "not as we exist today".
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Sep21-13, 03:19 PM
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Quote Quote by Evo View Post
Now where is the research on the ball bearing and making another human's finger twitch?
I remember reading this study

The world of mind-control zombie armies may have gotten just a little closer: Scientists say they've hooked up one person's brain to the Internet, to control the finger of another person playing a video game.
Mind meld? Scientist uses his brain to control another guy's finger
http://www.nbcnews.com/science/mind-...ger-8C11015078
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Sep21-13, 03:22 PM
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Quote Quote by Greg Bernhardt View Post
I remember reading this study



Mind meld? Scientist uses his brain to control another guy's finger
http://www.nbcnews.com/science/mind-...ger-8C11015078
The Op's question is will humans be able to control another's person's mind WITHOUT equipment. Not as we are today.
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Sep21-13, 03:34 PM
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Quote Quote by Evo View Post
The Op's question is will humans be able to control another's person's mind WITHOUT equipment. Not as we are today.
Are brain implants equipment?
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Sep21-13, 03:36 PM
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Quote Quote by Greg Bernhardt View Post
Are brain implants equipment?
Yes. If it helps to clarify we can say "any manufactured object that has a function".

MJ said "wirelessly", but since the current technology utilizes wireless ultrasound, I'm assuming he means without artificial means. His post isn't very clear, especially since he then asks if brain waves can be picked up by external electrodes, yes, that's also answered in his link.
MathJakob
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Sep21-13, 04:09 PM
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Quote Quote by Evo View Post
The Op's question is will humans be able to control another's person's mind WITHOUT equipment. Not as we are today.
This is not entirely my question infact. My question in general was would it ever be possible to do what humans can do today, with the mouses tail, the ball bearing and the finger (I'll find the thread for the ball bearing) and be able to do this but wirelessly. I think you've made it clear that it would not be possible.

http://neurogadget.com/2012/06/13/mi...ies-video/4448 I can't find the exact ball bearing link, it was a few years ago but here is a similar type of device.

One person uses a normal hand held lever, the other person uses just their thought to operate their racquet.

So just to clear things up I don't ever expect people to control other peoples brains, but could it be possible to create a device, however simple, that we can control wirelessly... We think of something, that something goes into a head peice we are wearing and then wirelessly sends that signal to the device which will then do what we "thought" it to.

**EDIT** actually I've just noticed that head peice she is wearing is infact wireless... maybe it has a cable tucked away I can't see
Pythagorean
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Sep21-13, 04:12 PM
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Quote Quote by MathJakob View Post
When we think about something, do those brain waves leave through the scalp or do they stay confined in the brain and it's just the electrodes picking up on the vibrations or something?
In most cases, the electrodes directly measure the electric potential signal created by a specific nucleus of neurons, then a machine interprets the signals.

In the case of "controlling" another human's finger, the signals are ultimately interpreted by another brain. However, I suspect that it wouldn't have mattered where the signal came form in that experiment. If you hook up to the right part of the brain, you can get somebody's finger to twitch no matter what signal you send through it. So you could hook it up to a random signal and it will still make the finger twitch. That's not a very impressive proof to me. If you can make someone do the hokey pokey with your mind, then I'll be impressed.
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Sep21-13, 05:27 PM
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MathJ, I don't get the distinction you seem to be making between "wirelessly" and otherwise. It is irrelevant to the heart of your question, it seems to me. Evo's point is that EQUIPMENT is required. Whether that equipment communicates within its various parts wirelessly or via wires is beside the point.
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Sep22-13, 08:33 AM
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Quote Quote by phinds View Post
MathJ, I don't get the distinction you seem to be making between "wirelessly" and otherwise. It is irrelevant to the heart of your question, it seems to me. Evo's point is that EQUIPMENT is required. Whether that equipment communicates within its various parts wirelessly or via wires is beside the point.
Of course equipment is required... Sorry if I never made that clear but I'm not talking about supernatural mind control here, I'm simply saying controlling digital objects. Take for example the most simple electronic circuit you can think of, something which makes a light bulb light up.

So you go to this harvard place, they sit you down, strap electrodes to your head, wire you upto a computer and after 20minutes of plugging crap into everywhere imaginable, you're ready to turn the light bulb on. So you think to turn to light bulb, on and it turns on, great! My question now is, would it be possible in the future to do all of this sort of stuff but without all the computers, without all the wires and electrodes and plugs and sensors, scanners and crap?

Simply put, can we just wear a headpeice that has everything built into it that will pick up on our thoughts, send those signals wirelessly to the correct device like an iphone, television or tablet that will translate your thought of "Check my email" into a digital signal the tablet can understand and then act on that thought.

I don't see where all the confusion is, sorry if I wasn't 100% clear but wirelessly doesn't mean without technology...
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Sep22-13, 09:36 AM
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Quote Quote by MathJakob View Post

I don't see where all the confusion is, sorry if I wasn't 100% clear but wirelessly doesn't mean without technology...
I think if you look at the responses, you'll see that at least a couple of us clearly thought you DID mean without technology and Evo responded to that.

With technology but "wirelessly", if "wirelessly" just means "with a helmet picking up signals and sending them wirelessly" instead of "with electrodes picking up signals and sending them over wires" then I'd say probably, someday, with more refined sensors and software.
lpetrich
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#16
Sep23-13, 04:14 PM
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Call Them Mouse-Controlled Rats
Chapin's team fitted five rats with electrodes and power-pack backpacks. When signaled by a laptop computer, the electrodes stimulated the rodents' brains and cued them to scurry in the desired direction, then rewarded them by stimulating a pleasure center in the brain.
So those rats were trained rather than directly controlled.

Emotiv | EEG System | Electroencephalography is an attempt to create a mass-market EEG sensor and interface to computer games and the like. I don't know how well it's doing.
russ_watters
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Sep23-13, 07:59 PM
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It isn't clear to me from the context which way the control is going. Typically, "mind control" is of the mind, not by the mind.
zoobyshoe
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Sep23-13, 11:26 PM
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This thread reminded me of this commercial:



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