Should teacher give a reason for refusal?

[heartless]

Heh, I fell into a silly accident, and I've done something terribly bad. For now, I don't mind to say what I did. And here's the questions: Should a teacher, tell the reason for not letting a student go to the bathroom? Or in other words, should a teacher explain the refusal of letting a student go the the bathroom? Yes or No? If you can, please explain your choice and proper reasoning. I'd appreciate any even insulting input. (but only regarding current topic) feel free to post your thoughts.

Thanks,

 

[JamesU]

I have no idea what a potato means, but I voted for it anyway...you seem to have a lot of problems with teachers and going to the bathroom...

 

[Moonbear]

I voted for no, but only if they're teaching. In other words, if you want to wait after class and ask why, then I think they can offer an explanation, but if you're interrupting class with requests to go to the bathroom, then there's no reason to disrupt it further with an explanation. No is the only answer needed.

If you keep finding you're having trouble waiting until class ends to use the restroom, you better see a doctor, because that's just not normal.

 

[DaveC426913]

We need to understand what led up to the refusal. Otherwise, opinions are meaningless.

Perhaps, you've asked every single day for the last week, and each time you were allowed to leave, you never came back to class. As the teacher, I would feel no obligation to explain anything. I can think of myriad less extreme examples why a teacher would not feel obliged to explain.

On the other hand, if you really did have to go - to the point where you were about to have an accident, you would be within your rights to override the teacher's decision and ask to see the principal (after using the loo). The key is to not make a scene. Work towards defusing an altercation, rather than escalating one - that will go along way towards your vindication.

 

[mattmns]

If you really have to go, then just go. I am not sure what grade you are in, but I think if you are in high school you can easily get away with just getting up and walking right out of class; at least I know I did when I was in High School.

 

[Gokul43201]

I voted no.

I don't think a teacher should be required to immediately provide explanation for every action taken by them. But the student certainly has the right to know about certain actions directly affecting them. So if a student asked the teacher why, the teacher would have to respond.

 

[Moonbear]

If you really have to go, then just go. I am not sure what grade you are in, but I think if you are in high school you can easily get away with just getting up and walking right out of class; at least I know I did when I was in High School.

That would have never flown in my high school. We were required to have a pass to be in the halls during class, and the "hall monitors" would drag you off to the principal's office if they caught you without one. But, Dave's advice does apply...if your bladder is about to burst and it's still 20 min before class ends, go to the bathroom without permission and be prepared to explain it to the principal when you're done. If you have an illness that is causing you to need to use the restroom more often than normal, get a note from your doctor or the school nurse and present it to the teacher before class so they know what's going on so you can just excuse yourself without being disruptive. But, if you're just interrupting the same class every day because you were talking to your friends in the hallway instead of using the restroom between classes when you had the chance, then learn to hold it.

If you think a teacher was unreasonable, discuss it after class or after school, or talk to the principal about it. The middle of class is not the time to debate their rules.

 

[ToxicBug]

LOL high school

 

[Danger]

Well, we never had any such thing as 'hall monitors'. The first time that I ever heard of the concept was in the 'Funky Winkerbean' comic where he was sitting at a desk behind an .30 Browning. (At least, I think that's what it was supposed to be; it's hard to tell in a cartoon.) We could stroll around all we wanted as long as we weren't scheduled for a class at the time.
Anyhow, there are a lot of factors to consider. Definitely, though, I think that the teacher should be required to explain his/her reasoning... privately after class. There's no need to pursue it while others are trying to get on with things, and it's no business of the other students. If you were just uncomfortable and in the middle of a test, that's far different than being in immediate need during a study session.
No one, teacher or otherwise, has the right to deny someone the basic human dignity of not pissing on the floor (or worse). If it's getting to that point, just go. Worry about the consequences later.
I'm still bitter about martinet school officials from when I was in grade 4 (first time in an Ontario school), and they forced us to drink sour milk. To this day, I throw up if I taste milk of any kind. My opinion might therefore be a little biased.

 

[Pyrrhus]

I never ask for permission to go to the bathroom, that's just odd :uhh:

 

[JasonRox]

Moonbear and Gokul have good points.

You have to remember though that you two are thoughtful and helpful people. Not all teachers are like this.

Some teachers may just be power tripping.

I'm not a fan of abusive authority and will rebel if authority is abused, so if you have to really go, just go.

 

[Cyrus]

You seem to have some odd threads my friend....

 

[FredGarvin]

I'm not a fan of abusive authority and will rebel if authority is abused, so if you have to really go, just go.

So, how do you decide if they are abusing their power? Is it because they make a decision that you do not agree with? Is it when a decision is made that you don't understand?

 

[arildno]

Disruptive behaviour of the learning environment is to be firmly prevented by the teacher.
The teacher is in full rights to say "no" to that type of "requests", and to put mark on disruptive attitude if the pupil persists in his request.

 

[Danger]

The teacher is in full rights to say "no" to that type of "requests", and to put mark on disruptive attitude if the pupil persists in his request.

Says he with the cast-iron bladder.

 

[J77]

In some seriousness, the teacher should now which kids have to use the toilet without having to ask.

 

[arildno]

Says he with the cast-iron bladder.

IMO, just about the only useful skill kids might get out of the present school system, IS to develop a cast-iron bladder.

 

[dav2008]

You have the option of going every 50 mins/hour.

 

[Lisa!]

As someone else mentioned if you really think you need to go, just go even if your teacher doesn't let you! You better ask the teacher for the permission only if you're sure he doesn't decline.(else go out and if he asks why didn't you ask him first, tell him you even didn't have time for asking...:uhh:)

I have no idea what a potato means, but I voted for it anyway...you seem to have a lot of problems with teachers and going to the bathroom...

Perhaps that means I don't care:zzz:, eh?

 

[Danger]

You have the option of going every 50 mins/hour.

For some, including a lot of diabetics, that's too long. Besides, this thread appears to be about a specific instance rather than a chronic occurrence. Would you want to be sitting within range of someone who got a bad enchilada at lunch?

 

[BobG]

The teacher is in full rights to say "no" to that type of "requests", and to put mark on disruptive attitude if the pupil persists in his request.

Says he with the cast-iron bladder.

Just out of curiosity, how many students would have to ask to use the restroom within a minute of each other before you would begin to get suspicious of them?

The obvious solution is to only let one go at a time, but then the one out at the restroom decides he can wait the teacher out and that the teacher will eventually relent and let the next student use the restroom.

How about if there's a sudden rash of students that have to use the restroom in the middle of a test? Might you get a little suspicious that most of the students are in need of a quick glance through their textbook rather than having to relieve themselves?

Kids are evil, devious creatures when they suspect they can get one over on a teacher (especially substitute teachers).

And, for the record, I was never devious as a kid.

 

[Danger]

Bob, the original question was about one student being denied the right to relieve himself in a dignified manner. How'd you get from that to the whole class stampeding out at once?

 

[Mattara]

The student should cross his or hers legs. It is not that difficult.

 

[BobG]

Bob, the original question was about one student being denied the right to relieve himself in a dignified manner. How'd you get from that to the whole class stampeding out at once?

Uh :uhh: ... a journey of a 1000 miles starts with a single step?

 

[Danger]

The student should cross his or hers legs. It is not that difficult.

You are kidding, I hope. When's the last time you tried to concentrate on getting anything useful done in that situation? Besides, there was no stipulation that urination was the reason for needing the bathroom.
As a side-note, forcefully restraining urine flow for any significant length of time can cause urinary tract damage.

 

[Danger]

Uh :uhh: ... a journey of a 1000 miles starts with a single step?

Well, that would rule out Mattera's solution. You can't walk with your legs crossed.

 

[Moonbear]

For some, including a lot of diabetics, that's too long. Besides, this thread appears to be about a specific instance rather than a chronic occurrence. Would you want to be sitting within range of someone who got a bad enchilada at lunch?

If the kid is diabetic, they should have a note from their doctor informing the teacher that they have a medical condition (it does not need to be specified) that leads them to needing to use the restroom more frequently, and more urgently than normal. With a medical note, this wouldn't even be an issue. For a healthy teenager, there is no reason they can't wait until the end of the class period. It would be much less than 50 min anyway, if they did not need to use the restroom BEFORE class. If they did already need it before class, they should go then. Chi Meson has pointed this out when the complaint was raised about a gym teacher not letting them run off to the bathroom after they were scolded for not changing gym clothes that the teachers can all manage to wait to use the restroom until the classes change, so there's no reason a younger student couldn't hold out that long. I'd hate to take a road trip with someone who can't wait 20 or 30 min from the time they realize they are going to need the restroom to the time when they can actually get to one.

If they had a bad enchilada, they should be requesting permission to see the school nurse, and can spend as much time as they need to in the bathroom in the nurse's office while the nurse calls for a parent or guardian to pick them up from school.

I think most here agree that if the kid's bladder is truly about to burst, or they really are having a sudden onset of bad diarrhea, that it is reasonable to ignore the teacher's refusal, or not even wait for permission, and just go. They will likely be sent to the principal for defying the teacher, but they can explain then the reason for the defiance, and the principal can determine if this student had a legitimate emergency or was just trying to get out of a boring lesson to smoke in the bathroom, or to just wander the halls for 10 min up to no good. If a kid is really in urgent need of the restroom, it'll be obvious from their behavior.

 

[Danger]

If they had a bad enchilada, they should be requesting permission to see the school nurse.

There's another new concept; we sure never had a school nurse. Is that common in the States?
I agree with most of your post to some extent, but not completely. For instance, I was never diagnosed diabetic until I was over 20. All I knew was that when I had to go, nothing better get in my way. And that feeling could come up almost instantly, without warning, even if I'd just gone a few minutes before. (Still happens sometimes if I've had more than 5 or 6 cups of coffee.)

 

[Moonbear]

There's another new concept; we sure never had a school nurse. Is that common in the States?

Yep. I don't know of schools without a nurse.

I agree with most of your post to some extent, but not completely. For instance, I was never diagnosed diabetic until I was over 20. All I knew was that when I had to go, nothing better get in my way. And that feeling could come up almost instantly, without warning, even if I'd just gone a few minutes before.

Which is why my first advice, in my first reply here is that if this person is finding they can't wait until the end of class to use the restroom, then s/he needs to see a doctor. It's actually quite a bit more common for kids to develop type II diabetes now than it used to be (thanks to the obesity problem), so doctors would be much more aware of that as a possible diagnosis now than when you were a teen (or even when I was a teen).

(Still happens sometimes if I've had more than 5 or 6 cups of coffee.)

Yeah, with the 16,000 gallons of cola kids drink with every meal nowadays, that's also a possibility, in which case it's time to cut back on the caffeine (consuming so much caffeine that you have to pee like a racehorse every 10 min is not conducive to learning anymore than not being allowed to pee when you need to).

The only other scenario when a student may need to use the restroom fairly urgently and that would be less apparent to the teacher would be the case of one of the girls in the class starting to menstruate. Since they tend to be more irregular than adults, and don't know how to recognize the advanced warning signs yet, it can begin unexpectedly and when they have not taken any preparation in advance for it. Adding to that, they may be embarrassed to give their reason in front of the whole class, or even to approach the teacher and ask quietly if the teacher is male. Again, in that case, I'd suggest opting to go to the nurse's office to use the restroom there. That way, the nurse can vouch for you that you really did leave the class to use the restroom, and it's usually easier to explain those reasons to them than to a teacher.

My experience is that teachers tend to adjust their rules according to how many students before have abused them. If students make a habit of disrupting one particular class to use the restroom, or are constantly coming and going, or suddenly needing to go only 5 min before class is over (so they don't have to return), then the teacher is likely to deny anyone permission to leave unless they're clearly fidgeting in their seat or turning green. If students don't abuse it, some teachers would just leave a hall pass on the edge of their desk or near the door for any student to quietly excuse themself to the restroom. Leaving one pass out meant only one student at a time. If only one student a week ended up needing it, they don't restrict it too much, but if the same student is leaving every day in the middle of class, or half the class is wandering in and out to the bathroom every class period, then they'll put a stop to it.

Sometimes it's also when you ask. If the teacher is right in the middle of presenting new material, or you're taking a quiz, they might ask you to just wait 5 min, or until you're done with the quiz. If they're just reviewing homework assignments, or everyone is sitting quietly at their desk doing an in-class assignment, they're likely to let you go right away. If you've just been caught passing notes and not paying attention to class or talking or complaining about the class being boring, they aren't very likely to believe you suddenly need to use the restroom.

In any case, the middle of class is not the time for debate because that just disrupts everyone's learning. If you disagree with your teacher (about anything, not just bathroom permission), wait until after class...or if you still need to run to the restroom, meet them afterschool, or discuss it before class the next day.

 

[Mk]

Should teacher give a reason for refusal?

Heartless, I think you need to stop freaking out over your teachers. You may not like them, but they're trying to teach the class and keep all of you restrained from destroying the world while your parents are working.

If the kid is diabetic, they should have a note from their doctor informing the teacher that they have a medical condition (it does not need to be specified) that leads them to needing to use the restroom more frequently, and more urgently than normal.

They should, but they should not have to present it when they need to go to bathroom.

School nurses

School nurses don't do anything. They just say if it is ok if you can go home or not, and they deal with freaked-out teenage girls about pregnancy and the menstral cycle.

 

[Chi Meson]

Anyone with a condition such as Danger has, it would be known by the teacher. I have had many diabetics in my classroom, and I have never had anyone with a persistent problem of needing to relieve themselves without warning.

Usually, if a student blurts out that they need to go, I'll have them wait just a few minutes until we are at a convenient stopping point. It has never been a problem, and no one has complained except for my worst students who want to wander the halls with their buddies for 15 minutes.

Re the OP, it is a balance between aknowledging the FACT that the teacher is the authority in the classroom (and every decision does not need to be explained), and the FACT that any rule must have a logical reason behind it.

These days, the only reason that a student needs to suddenly and immediately go to the bathroom, is because their cell phone just vibrated in their pocket.

 

[Danger]

Anyone with a condition such as Danger has, it would be known by the teacher.

It wasn't even known to me. Or my family, for that matter. There were some pretty useless doctors in that area. :grumpy:

 

[Chi Meson]

It wasn't even known to me. Or my family, for that matter. There were some pretty useless doctors in that area. :grumpy:

By the time you got to high school, surely someone had noticed that you had to ... eh ... evacuate with higher than normal frequency and urgency? Did you encounter problems with some teachers, or were your classes "open" enough so that there just wasn't any such situation?

 

[Danger]

I avoided the issue by not drinking anything other than a sip or two of water until I got home. Also, when at school I primarily had real food without sweets for lunch. That tremendously cut down the need to purge my bloodstream of excess glucose. (And even with those clues, my doctor never dreamed of testing my pancreatic functions. I'm sure that he got his diploma out of a cereal box.) I just went by the cause/effect relationship between intake and consequences.

 

[sconochini]

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