Exploring Bull Fighting: Opinions and Perspectives

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In summary, the conversation discusses different perspectives on bullfighting as a form of entertainment. Some argue that it is a cruel and barbaric sport, while others see it as an art performance. The conversation also touches on the demographics of bullfighting and the potential for it to die out in the future. There is also a discussion on the purpose and potential cruelty of bullfighting, with some suggesting that it may not be as entertaining as it seems. Overall, there is a range of opinions on the subject, with some advocating for the end of bullfighting.
  • #1
Equate
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Last week I saw this documentary on PBS/POV:

http://www.pbs.org/pov/matador/"

And then I fell in love with this:



So now, during the past week I have talked to people around here about the subject of bull fights. The overwhelming majority shuns it, bringing in arguments like "it is cruel", "torture", "slaughter".

In the early 90's I attended bull fights while I was in Barcelona, Spain. To me, a bull fight is an art performance, like a symphony, a thing of beauty, grace, harmony, and respect.

I don't see anything wrong with it, unlike cock or dog fights which I am against strongly.



Where do you guys stand on the subject? Am I the only one who enjoys bull fights?
 
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  • #2
I don't see the necessity nor appeal of killing an animal for entertainment.

Why not simply dance with the bulls - without injuring them?
 
  • #3
One man, as nature created him. One bull, likewise. That's fair; I'd pay to watch that.

But, as it is, it's a barbaric "sport" that tortures an animal for enjoyment. You want to eat the bull? Fine; shoot in cleanly in the head.
 
  • #4
negitron said:
One man, as nature created him. One bull, likewise. That's fair; I'd pay to watch that.

But, as it is, it's a barbaric "sport" that tortures an animal for enjoyment. You want to eat the bull? Fine; shoot in cleanly in the head.

Totally agree. The fact that the human wins...ok, just making up this statistic...99.9% of the time shows that clearly, this is killing an animal purely for entertainment...*shudder*.

Oh and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullfighting" :

A 2002 Gallup poll found that 68.8% of Spaniards express "no interest" in bullfighting while 20.6% expressed "some interest" and 10.4% "a lot of interest." The poll also found significant generational variety, with 51% of those 65 and older expressing interest, compared with 23% of those between 25–34 years of age

So, based on demographics, in several decades bullfighting may die a natural death...unlike the bulls involved in this gruesome "sport."
 
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  • #5
I think it would be more interesting without the knife.
 
  • #6
WhoWee said:
I think it would be more interesting without the knife.

Well, the French style of bullfighting is just that. Say what you will about the French, but at least they do this the right way.
 
  • #7
For those calling it torture, according to the wiki article the bull fighter is supposed to kill the bull quickly and cleanly with a single stroke. I'm sure it often happens that this ideal is not achieved but apparently torturing the animal would be considered poor sportsmanship.

I still do not like the idea of killing an animal for entertainment myself though.
 
  • #8
TheStatutoryApe said:
For those calling it torture, according to the wiki article the bull fighter is supposed to kill the bull quickly and cleanly with a single stroke.

O RLY?

At this point, the picador stabs a mound of muscle on the bull's neck, weakening the neck muscles and leading to the animal's first loss of blood. The manner in which the bull charges the horse provides important clues to the matador about which side the bull favors. If the picador is successful, the bull will hold its head and horns lower during the following stages of the fight. This makes the bull's charges less dangerous while enabling the matador to perform.

In the next stage, the tercio de banderillas ("the third of flags"), the three banderilleros each attempt to plant two razor sharp barbed sticks (called banderillas) on the bull's flanks, as close as possible to the wound where the picador drew first blood. These further weaken the ridges of neck and shoulder muscle and increases the loss of blood.

Sounds like torture to me.
 
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  • #9
Equate said:
I don't see anything wrong with it, unlike cock or dog fights which I am against strongly.

You're on a slippery slope, though. Next stop: cat juggling.

 
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  • #10
Equate said this:
In the early 90's I attended bull fights while I was in Barcelona, Spain. To me, a bull fight is an art performance, like a symphony, a thing of beauty, grace, harmony, and respect.

Do you believe that the bull thinks the same way about this?
 
  • #11
symbolipoint said:
Equate said this:


Do you believe that the bull thinks the same way about this?

Who knows?

Death is inevitable to the bull no matter what. If I were the bull and be given the choice between the slaughterhouse and the corrida, I would take the arena any day. At least depart live with some dignity.
 
  • #12
The purpose for bull fighting, if ever there was one, is past. Hopefully the same applies to all forms of violence.
 
  • #13
Loren Booda said:
The purpose for bull fighting, if ever there was one, is past. Hopefully the same applies to all forms of violence.

The only purpose has been, and always will be, to put on an entertaining spectacle.
 
  • #14
Spain may well be the most beautiful land I have ever visited. That is spectacle enough without a sensation which many humankind - including Spaniards - call cruelty to animals. Such drawn-out execution like bullfighting is rightly associated with gratuitous brutality - not entertainment, no matter how one dresses the torture.
 
  • #15
The last time I was in Aruba, there was a bull-fighting show on the TV, so I watched it. What I saw was that the bull was let out into the ring and started to romp around exuberantly. I imagine it had been cooped up just prior. It would chase after the clowns but without any purpose. It would halt the chase after one clown for distraction by another. This entertaining exuberance grinds to a halt over time as it is stabbed several times with knives that presumably have barbs in them since they don't fall off. They dangle from its back and that's got to hurt. Before the audience has a chance to get bored and start playing cribbage, the matador starts to 'fight' with it. I thought that the bull was supposed to be enraged by the knives and would charge at the bullfighter. This was not the case. I think this docile creature was dazed and confused, but not angry. It didn't charge the matador, but did on occasion charge the matador's cape. Big deal. Bull zero, cape one. The beast is an idiot by human standards. by cape standards it's touch and go, but the cape doesn't have gayly colored knives stuck in it. Even then, it had to be coaxed. It would stand there and the bullfighter would present the cape and the bull would look away. To no avail poor beast, there was not a blade of grass to eat, no cows shaking that thang, and what else would a bull be looking for? Shake the cape. No interest. Take a step toward the bull. Oh all right, I'll charge if I must. The bull makes a beeline for the cape, completely ignoring its 'tormentor' and having charged it to no effect, stands still and has to be reminded that it is in a fight for its life by the matador. Perhap the whole point is to see how long you can keep the bull's attention focused on the action. After a while, the bull is exhausted, presumably from pain, loss of blood, the pointless and onesided fight with the cape, poor sleep the night before, and the mindnumbing boredom that is the life of a bull. Now the brave matador, exposes the sword and points it at the bull's forehead. If it was me I would pull that old karate manuver where you get up on the toes of one foot, pivot on the other, turn and high-tail it for some country where they don't fight bulls. But the bull has no clue what a sword is and what it is for. Perhaps they should paint it red and wave it. It wouldn't do any good, because this bull wouldn't charge a cow if it was painted red just now. It wants a nap more than anything else. The bull just stands there with a 'what next?' look on its face. In goes the sword and down goes the bull. Well, yeah, only one side was fighting and that side won. Big whoop. I say give the bull the cape and sword and stick bandaleros in the matador and see if that makes for an interesting fight.
 
  • #16
Interesting opinions so far...
 
  • #17
How does bullfighting compare with rodeo, where they do some pretty nasty things to the animals?

Then there's the process leading up to the slaughterhouse. See the documentary Meat.
 
  • #18
I watched it again and loved it.

Beautiful.

Mari Paz is great. The bull is dignified in defeat.

Go ahead and scorn me now.
 
  • #19
Equate said:
Who knows?

Death is inevitable to the bull no matter what. If I were the bull and be given the choice between the slaughterhouse and the corrida, I would take the arena any day. At least depart live with some dignity.

So you'd rather have people laughing and shouting at you while you are tortured and eventually killed, while you try desperately to defend yourself, than being killed quickly and without spectacle? And you call that dignity? :uhh:
 
  • #20
Best bullfight ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVwv_1EhitI
 
  • #21
redargon said:
And you call that dignity?

Yes.

Go visit Spain if you get a chance. And then live it.
 
  • #22
Equate said:
Yes.

Go visit Spain if you get a chance. And then live it.

I've visited Spain, and I went to a bull ring/museum in Valencia and I thought that the outfits were cool and the history was interesting, but I found the rest morbid and disturbing and I'm glad I didn't have to pay to get in and their bathroom was free too...
 
  • #23
This article may make some of you feel a little better,http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...val-pretending-matador-entertain-crowds.html".

This http://www.history.com/encyclopedia.do?articleId=204065" is a short history of bullfighting. I was surprised to find that bullfights have been around since around 1500 bc, however the earlier fights were more acrobatic than actual fighting, the "fighters"(male and female) would jump the bull by grabbing his horns and throw themselves over the back of the bull. To me that sounds a little more dangerous and entertaining than the present sport of bullfighting, kind of like rodeo clowns. I also found it interesting that the bulls used for the fights don't need to be starved, tortured, or prodded to charge the matador as they are purposely breed to charge anything that moves and that is why they chase the cape not because of its color but because of the movement. One other thing was that bulls used for the fights get one more year of life than bulls that are slaughtered. Someone earlier in this thread said they would rather have a chance to kill their tormentor in a bullfight than to just be killed at the slaughter house if they were a bull and I would have to agree, I would gladly suffer some pain to get a year longer to live and a chance to kill the guy putting me through pain and suffering. One thing that I think gets overlooked by those trying to end our use of animals for anything(food, clothing, entertainment) is what will happen to those animals once there is no use for them? Is it supposed that ranchers will raise an animal that they can't sell or use, or would it logically follow that the ranchers will no longer raise the animals and they would be or come close to extinction? I know quite a few ranchers and would have to say for the most part they would happily go out and shoot all their cows(well all except for the ones they keep for their own use) before they would pay to raise them with no chance of profit. This may sound callous but I think it is just being realistic.
 
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  • #24
Equate said:
Who knows?

Death is inevitable to the bull no matter what. If I were the bull and be given the choice between the slaughterhouse and the corrida, I would take the arena any day. At least depart live with some dignity.
Notice that the bull is not given a choice of how it will die. If you were to anthropomorphize the situation so that it could, it (or you) still wouldn't have a choice in the matter.

How could there possibly be dignity in dying for the entertainment of an audience?



But it is not a human. Animals do not experience dignity or shame. They experience pain.
 
  • #25
Vanadium 50 said:
Best bullfight ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVwv_1EhitI

lol epic. I thoroughly enjoyed that.
 
  • #26
Bull fights are awesome, guys! There's like this bull and then this guy like tricks it into running at him and stuff. Then he kills the bull. Plus you can say it's art and that makes you feel sophisticated. What's not to like?
 
  • #27
Origin of bullfighting? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minotaur"
 
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1. What is bullfighting?

Bullfighting is a traditional spectacle that involves a matador, or bullfighter, facing off against a bull in an arena. It typically consists of three stages or acts, in which the matador uses a variety of maneuvers and weapons to demonstrate their bravery and skill while also attempting to subdue and kill the bull.

2. Is bullfighting cruel to animals?

This is a highly debated topic, with some arguing that bullfighting is a form of art and cultural heritage, while others view it as a brutal and unnecessary form of animal cruelty. The practice does result in the death of the bull, but proponents argue that the bull is treated with respect and admiration throughout the spectacle.

3. What are the opinions on bullfighting?

Opinions on bullfighting vary greatly depending on cultural, ethical, and personal beliefs. Some view it as a cultural tradition that should be preserved, while others see it as a barbaric and outdated practice. There are also differing opinions on the role of animals in entertainment and whether or not they should be used for human amusement.

4. What are the perspectives on bullfighting?

Similarly to opinions, perspectives on bullfighting can vary greatly. Some may view it as a sport and a test of bravery, while others may see it as a form of animal exploitation. There are also perspectives that take into account the economic and cultural impacts of bullfighting on certain regions and communities.

5. Is bullfighting still practiced today?

Yes, bullfighting is still practiced in some countries, particularly in Spain, Portugal, and parts of Latin America. However, there has been a decline in its popularity and many countries have banned or restricted the practice due to animal welfare concerns. There are also ongoing debates and efforts to ban or regulate bullfighting in these countries.

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