High School Physics: What to Expect

[BloodyFrozen]

Does anyone know how high school physics are like? (like AP, etc)

Is it mathematically introduced or just a basic formula and solve?

I'm trying to figure out where I should start in Physics. I have no clue how it compares to math (ie. geometry->precalc->calc->etc):tongue2:

 

[Redbelly98]

People do not usually start out with AP physics, instead they have a one-year introductory course first.

Generally speaking, lots of physics problems are "word problems", which are solved by having the student setting up equations to be solved based on the concepts they have learned. Problems can range from plugging info into a single simple formula (easier) to figuring out what equation or combination of equations, out of several possibilities, is necessary to solve a problem.

The math required is mostly algebra 2, with some geometry and basic trig (the sine, cosine, tangent functions).

 

[BloodyFrozen]

Yes, I know starting out w/ AP isn't usually done, but I looked up the first level Physics course and it seemed pretty easy. Any ideas on some good Physics books?

 

[Stengah]

Giancoli is a decent textbook, you could also consider getting an AP Physics review book for B or C such as those from Princeton Review.

 

[Fizex]

High school AP physics classes are a quiet post-lunch nap time where knowledge goes to die and the teacher gives easy A's.

Well that's how it was for me anyway...

 

[Kevin_Axion]

Then obviously your teacher doesn't know how to teach and you'll probably end up being unprepared for university.

 

[n1person]

Obviously much of it involves who your teacher is and what textbook is used.

I will say my school didn't require intro physics before AP Physics, and pretty much if you have some knowledge of calculus, AP Physics C will be far far far more interesting than intro physics (which will probably be all formula memorization).

 

[Kevin_Axion]

Obviously much of it involves who your teacher is and what textbook is used.

I will say my school didn't require intro physics before AP Physics, and pretty much if you have some knowledge of calculus, AP Physics C will be far far far more interesting than intro physics (which will probably be all formula memorization).

Well, at the very bottom of it, a lot of physics is formula memorization.

 

[Fizex]

At the very bottom, physics is understanding why the formula is the way it is.

 

[Kevin_Axion]

At the very bottom, physics is understanding why the formula is the way it is.

Not necessarily, I would agree that mathematical physics is trying to understand the reasoning behind the formula but standard physics isn't. It's all opinion anyways.

 

[micromass]

At the very bottom, physics is deciding which formula is applicable and which instances.

 

[twofu]

Well, at the very bottom of it, a lot of physics is formula memorization.

Not really. The only "formulas" you should be memorizing are the laws that govern whatever topic you're studying. Physical laws are written mathematically. Memorizing Newton's 2nd law or Gauss's law, other Maxwell equations is a good idea. If you begin memorizing something like the magnetic field created by a loop current then you're doing it wrong.

Every problem is different and you have to manipulate laws and concepts learned to come up with a unique solution.

 

[n1person]

Perhaps the most introductory type physics is mostly formula memorization, but higher physics most certainly isn't! It is about problem solving and innovation :P

As twofu said, there are very few formulas you should memorize. Really the people who are "good at physics" barely memorize any formulas, and are capable of deriving them quickly. You don't learn to do that in any sort of algebra based physics. What is the relation between momentum and force? What does impulse mean? etc.

This is well shown in the fact that higher physics courses generally require less and less formulas. GR you pretty much have the field equations, and a few definitions (Stress Energy Tensor, Christoffell connection).

 

[Fizex]

At the very bottom, physics is deciding which formula is applicable and which instances.

Sounds like engineering to me.

 

[Kevin_Axion]

Perhaps the most introductory type physics is mostly formula memorization, but higher physics most certainly isn't! It is about problem solving and innovation :P

As twofu said, there are very few formulas you should memorize. Really the people who are "good at physics" barely memorize any formulas, and are capable of deriving them quickly. You don't learn to do that in any sort of algebra based physics. What is the relation between momentum and force? What does impulse mean? etc.

This is well shown in the fact that higher physics courses generally require less and less formulas. GR you pretty much have the field equations, and a few definitions (Stress Energy Tensor, Christoffell connection).

Touche. I suppose I should have wrote introductory physics.

 

[jtbell]

As twofu said, there are very few formulas you should memorize.

One of the reasons I decided to major in physics instead of chemistry or biology was that I didn't have to memorize as much.

 

[Functor97]

Not necessarily, I would agree that mathematical physics is trying to understand the reasoning behind the formula but standard physics isn't. It's all opinion anyways.

That is not quite correct. Mathematical physics attempts to understand the mathematics behind a "formula" whereas physics in general seeks to understand the physical reasons for an expression being correct.
As for physics being opinion? I think you would be better suited to a literature degree if that is your belief, postmodernism is all the rage at the moment, but fortunately it does not extend into the natural sciences.

 

[Functor97]

Well, at the very bottom of it, a lot of physics is formula memorization.

This is so uninformed its not amusing. Your profile says you have yet to enter university. I would suggest you refrain from making these groundless generalisations until you take a real physics course, AP doesn't cut it. I would suggest in future you cease commenting on issues you do not understand.

 

[Kevin_Axion]

This is so uninformed its not amusing. Your profile says you have yet to enter university. I would suggest you refrain from making these groundless generalisations until you take a real physics course, AP doesn't cut it. I would suggest in future you cease commenting on issues you do not understand.

I admitted that I was wrong. I don't understand why you're getting defensive.

 

[Functor97]

I admitted that I was wrong. I don't understand why you're getting defensive.

It is good that you admitted you were wrong. The problem is someone seeking advice might listen to you, even though you lack experience and knowledge, and this would lead to a misconstrued view of physics. I think you should cease giving advice to college students until you yourself actually enter univeristy. I am sorry if i come off as defensive, but i found your opinion in regards to physics quite shocking from someone who claims to have an interest in the subject. I would advise you to study the subject in more depth before you make such ad hoc statements.

 

[micromass]

It is good that you admitted you were wrong. The problem is someone seeking advice might listen to you, even though you lack experience and knowledge, and this would lead to a misconstrued view of physics. I think you should cease giving advice to college students until you yourself actually enter univeristy. I am sorry if i come off as defensive, but i found your opinion in regards to physics quite shocking from someone who claims to have an interest in the subject. I would advise you to study the subject in more depth before you make such ad hoc statements.

Oh please, so soon we will all need a PhD to be able to respond to a thread.

All Kevin did was convey his opinion (which I don't agree with), and I believe that he should continue doing so. Whether he is in high school or not is actually quite irrelevant to me. I've seen bad advice from PhD people, and I've seen good advice from high school people.

The great thing about this website is, that if you make a bad comment, then there will be people who correct you immediately. So if somebody wanted to follow bad advice, then it probably means that he didn't read the corrections afterwards.

I agree with kevin that there's no need to be defensive. Just point out nicely the mistakes in his posts...

 

[Functor97]

Oh please, so soon we will all need a PhD to be able to respond to a thread.

All Kevin did was convey his opinion (which I don't agree with), and I believe that he should continue doing so. Whether he is in high school or not is actually quite irrelevant to me. I've seen bad advice from PhD people, and I've seen good advice from high school people.

The great thing about this website is, that if you make a bad comment, then there will be people who correct you immediately. So if somebody wanted to follow bad advice, then it probably means that he didn't read the corrections afterwards.

I agree with kevin that there's no need to be defensive. Just point out nicely the mistakes in his posts...

It was not my intention to be "defensive". I agree he should have the right to continue posting, but if he makes such blatently uninformed statements he has no one to blame, bar himself, for being corrected in a suitably harsh way. "is just opinion" is the type of assertion i expect to read in a postmodern literature course, not a scientific forum, advising future students.
I apologise for being too harsh, I understand he is only a kid.

 

[Kevin_Axion]

It was not my intention to be "defensive". I agree he should have the right to continue posting, but if he makes such blatently uninformed statements he has no one to blame, bar himself, for being corrected in a suitably harsh way. "is just opinion" is the type of assertion i expect to read in a postmodern literature course, not a scientific forum, advising future students.
I apologise for being too harsh, I understand he is only a kid.

Gravity is the curvature of space-time through the stress-energy tensor.

Opinion? No.

Photons are local excitations of the electromagnetic field.

Opinon? No.

Conservation of energy is directly correlated to invariance in time translations.

Opinion? No.

Physics, the study of nature through mathematics and experiment is subject to opinion. That very definition is an argument of semantics and is subjective through one's experience with teachers, books they read etc. For instance, two students take the same course on EM. One person has a teacher whom rights formulas on the board where as one discusses the intuition behind the ideas accompanied by problem solving. The two meet up and discuss how they feel about EM, the former states that he is very bored with it since all they do is given are formulas (hence creating a generalization and perspective on physics itself). The latter states that he is interested in it since there is much investigation and analysis. In this situation we have separate opinions about the same field of study much like how different people with different experiences whom have a subjective opinion on physics (they also continue to argue about what physics actually is). It may be wrong, but is it only wrong because your opinion is different than mine? I still admit I'm wrong but hell, why do you there can't be opinion when I clearly stated the possibility for different opinions to emerge?

 

[Functor97]

Oh please, so soon we will all need a PhD to be able to respond to a thread.

All Kevin did was convey his opinion (which I don't agree with), and I believe that he should continue doing so. Whether he is in high school or not is actually quite irrelevant to me. I've seen bad advice from PhD people, and I've seen good advice from high school people.

The great thing about this website is, that if you make a bad comment, then there will be people who correct you immediately. So if somebody wanted to follow bad advice, then it probably means that he didn't read the corrections afterwards.

I agree with kevin that there's no need to be defensive. Just point out nicely the mistakes in his posts...

Gravity is the curvature of space-time through the stress-energy tensor.

Opinion? No.

Photons are local excitations of the electromagnetic field.

Opinon? No.

Conservation of energy is directly correlated to invariance in time translations.

Opinion? No.

Physics, the study of nature through mathematics and experiment is subject to opinion. That very definition is an argument of semantics and is subjective through one's experience with teachers, books they read etc. For instance, two students take the same course on EM. One person has a teacher whom rights formulas on the board where as one discusses the intuition behind the ideas accompanied by problem solving. The two meet up and discuss how they feel about EM, the former states that he is very bored with it since all they do is given are formulas (hence creating a generalization and perspective on physics itself). The latter states that he is interested in it since there is much investigation and analysis. In this situation we have separate opinions about the same field of study much like how different people with different experiences whom have a subjective opinion on physics (they also continue to argue about what physics actually is). It may be wrong, but is it only wrong because your opinion is different than mine? I still admit I'm wrong but hell, why do you there can't be opinion when I clearly stated the possibility for different opinions to emerge?

In the case you highlighted the subject matter is not subjective. Unless i have misunderstood your original statement, you seem very confused about the difference between objective and subjective fact. I do not want enter a philosophical discussion on what is subjective and what is not, but applying neo postmodern readings to physics "Oh its all just opinion anyway" is straight out wrong. If it were opinion i would construct the laws of physics to make me a rich man. Mathematics and Physics are internally subjective disciplines due to the axiomatic and scientific method.

 

[micromass]

In the case you highlighted the subject matter is not subjective. Unless i have misunderstood your original statement, you seem very confused about the difference between objective and subjective fact. I do not want enter a philosophical discussion on what is subjective and what is not, but applying neo postmodern readings to physics "Oh its all just opinion anyway" is straight out wrong. If it were opinion i would construct the laws of physics to make me a rich man. Mathematics and Physics are internally subjective disciplines due to the axiomatic and scientific method.

I'm not speaking for Kevin here, but I think you misunderstood him...
Statements like 1+1=2 or "a compact metric space is separable" are not subject to opinion. But statements like "does mathematics/physics describe reality" or "I find this physics course difficult" are obviously subject to opinion. It is my guess that Kevin intended to say this...

 

[Functor97]

I'm not speaking for Kevin here, but I think you misunderstood him...
Statements like 1+1=2 or "a compact metric space is separable" are not subject to opinion. But statements like "does mathematics/physics describe reality" or "I find this physics course difficult" are obviously subject to opinion. It is my guess that Kevin intended to say this...

Indeed, he may have meant to say that. It is no big deal anyway, he has admitted his mistake.

 

[Kevin_Axion]

I'm not speaking for Kevin here, but I think you misunderstood him...
Statements like 1+1=2 or "a compact metric space is separable" are not subject to opinion. But statements like "does mathematics/physics describe reality" or "I find this physics course difficult" are obviously subject to opinion. It is my guess that Kevin intended to say this...

Precisely. The discoveries in physics are objective. But one's ideas of what physics is are subjective and are influenced by how we are exposed to the subject. Take for instance many people who don't enjoy math in their youth and then discover its beauty after. The reason they disliked it and had this opinion towards it was due to their experiences with it, this is beyond the argument though.

 

[Fizex]

Someone needs to lighten up a little. As long as he admits his mistake, eh?

:tongue2:

 

[twofu]

Why can't we be friends...why can't we be friends?

 

[romsofia]

Well, back to the OP, my school didn't have a pre-req to take the AP physics C course. It really depends on your teacher, as mine was really awesome to say the least. He would really make you work but it pays out in the end. He would derive every equation and would go into full detail on every sample problem.

Now to answer your question about the math, it depends on your teacher. I know on more than a few tests in my class my teacher asked us derive some of the formulas we used.

Physics isn't an easy subject, but in my opinion, it's total worth all the work you put into it.

 

[Fizex]

High school AP physics classes are a quiet post-lunch nap time where knowledge goes to die and the teacher gives easy A's.

Well that's how it was for me anyway...

Then obviously your teacher doesn't know how to teach and you'll probably end up being unprepared for university.

Paradoxically, it did prepare me for university as I put the burden of learning the material, reading the textbook, solving numerous problems that weren't required, and prepping for tests in my own hands. With this approach I didn't need to depend on my professor to be an excellent lecturer once I got to college.

 

[Kevin_Axion]

Paradoxically, it did prepare me for university as I put the burden of learning the material, reading the textbook, solving numerous problems that weren't required, and prepping for tests in my own hands. With this approach I didn't need to depend on my professor to be an excellent lecturer once I got to college.

Then all power to you.

 

[Fizex]

Then all power to you.

I made this point to tell the OP a class is what you make of it and there is no point in telling him what it's like, sorry if I addressed it wrong. It could be basic memorization or analytic thinking.