Why no supersymmetric partners?

  • Thread starter yanniru
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In summary, Lisa Randall discusses supersymmetry and how it could potentially solve the hierarchy problem in her book Warped Passages. However, she also suggests that broken symmetry may not be the only explanation for the lack of detectable superpartners. It is possible that the number of superpartner particles and anti-particles were equal in the early universe, resulting in no leftover superpartners. This alternative scenario is still an unsolved problem for matter and could potentially explain the lack of superpartner detections. Additionally, it is argued that exact supersymmetry may not be possible, as it would eliminate the effectiveness of virtual particles and may not be consistent with observed phenomena.
  • #1
yanniru
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Quoting from Lisa Randall’s book, Warped Passages, page 343:

“We have seen that supersymmetry can elegantly protect the hierarchy and guarantee that all the large quantum mechanical contributions to the Higgs particle add up to zero. But, as we saw in Chapter 13, even if supersymmetry exists in nature, it must be broken to explain why we’ve observed particles but not their superpartners”

She goes on to indicate that broken symmetry cannot be correct and suggests that the hierarchy problem (i.e., the 16 orders between the Planck mass scale and the weak force mass scale) could be solved by removing the supersymmetry breaking to a separate brane.

However, there may be another explanation for the lack of detectable superpartners. It seems well established that during the Big Bang when the particles recombined with or annihilated anti-particles, that only a tiny fraction of the original number of particles were left over due to CP violation to become all that we can see in the physical universe. Now perhaps if the number of superpartner particles were exactly equal to the number of superpartner anti-particles, then there would be no leftover superpartners in nature. Then broken supersymmetry would not be required to explain the lack of superpartner detections, and virtual superpartners could have exactly the same properties in mass and charge as virtual particles; thus making the supersymmetric solution of the hierarchy problem almost exact.

Wikipedia suggests that CP violation of the weak force alone accounts for only a tiny fraction of the mass of the universe. So I gather that this is an unsolved problem for matter, and presumably also for the superpartners. Thus complete annihilation of the superpartners is a possibility. Can some of you comment on that possibility? In particular is it a well known possibility or easily forbidden?

Richard Ruquist
 
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  • #2
Another possibility is that there is no supersymmetry, except the BRST "ghost" supersymmetry that is inherent in gauge field theory.
 
  • #3
Would the BRST "ghost" supersymmetry solve the heirarchy problem?
 
  • #4
Good point, yanniru.
 
  • #5
A thing I was thinking recently is if we can control the hierarchy by using diquarks and pseudoscalars, which -thanks to having three generation- happen to occur in the exact number of degrees of freerom that the elementary fermions.
 
  • #6
Supersymmetric virtual particles

Here is an argument against the existence of exact supersymmetry, where exact supersymmetry means that the superpartners have the exact properties of the partner partners except for spin and CP violation.

The heirarchy problem is solved with supersymmetry by essentially eliminating the effectiveness of virtual particles. For example, the strong force confinement of quarks depends on the accumulation of virtual particles as the quarks separate- at least that is what I read. But with exact supersymmetric cancellation of the virtual particle effect, that seemingly could no longer be true.

I am also wondering if the supersymmetric cancellation of anomolies in superstring theory is related to this problem. Seems at least in the virtual particle case that the effect is mediated rather than cancelled. But in superstring case it should be cancellation rather than mediation.
 
  • #7
Hmm, if it were possible to elaborat it (I doubt), the argument aims against supersymmetry in the gauge sector, but it still remains susy in the matter sector. In fact, it is susy with the elementary fermions which is needed to control the hierarchy divergence in the Higgs mass.

Note the peculiar point that the coupling constants between Higgs field and other particles are proportional to the mass. This does not happen with usual gauge couplings.
 
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  • #8
Consider the vacuum energy

Well, I have to profess ignorance of the matter and gauge sector. So allow me to pose a different question: If susy solves the Higgs heirarchy problem by cancelling or at least mediating the effectiveness of virtual particles, would it not also reduce the vacuum energy as well?
 
  • #9
I call matter to the standard model fermions, and force to the gauge bosons. Just nomenclature.

As for the vacuum, yep, a property of any unbroken SUSY is that the lowest energy state has eigenvalue zero. So I would suspect that vacuum energy disappears from the view. But perhaps all the vacuum energy theme is a wrong take, according a recent paper of Jaffe.
 
  • #10
vacuum energy

Thanks, arivero. That clears a lot up for me. But then why do so many worry that the vacuum energy is 120 orders of magnitude too small? Seems rather that the small vacuum energy is evidence for susy.
 
  • #11
I can not be of more help here, but I hope some other taker can. Any?
 
  • #12
yanniru said:
Here is an argument against the existence of exact supersymmetry, where exact supersymmetry means that the superpartners have the exact properties of the partner partners except for spin and CP violation.
The heirarchy problem is solved with supersymmetry by essentially eliminating the effectiveness of virtual particles. For example, the strong force confinement of quarks depends on the accumulation of virtual particles as the quarks separate- at least that is what I read. But with exact supersymmetric cancellation of the virtual particle effect, that seemingly could no longer be true.
I am also wondering if the supersymmetric cancellation of anomolies in superstring theory is related to this problem. Seems at least in the virtual particle case that the effect is mediated rather than cancelled. But in superstring case it should be cancellation rather than mediation.

I do believe that there is a Randall+Sundrum? paper that I have to check, from sometime ago that made handwavings to the 'choice' of Universe 'era', specifically an expanding or contracting era?

The question can be similar to here:https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=104934

with the 'era' being pahse dependant, for instance for evolving from an expanding phase, the symmetry is broken via particle production at an epoch close to the Big-Bang. All the resulting particles are configured and evolve into matter, redistributed by Stars, Galaxies.etc..

Now for the 'super-symmetry' particle counterparts, they are behind the event-horizon of Black-Holes (there are some models that maintain that Blackholes are infact super-particles themselves:Hawking-Blackholes aint so Black.), but, for the Universe that is "actually" in contraction, the super-symmetry (missing) particles appear close to the Big-Bang, as the density of matter is configured and squeezed.

I will try and dig out the actual paper, but I know the speculation was followed by a number of other theorists.
 

1. Why is there no evidence of supersymmetric partners in experiments?

There are a few possible explanations for this lack of evidence. One possibility is that the energy scale at which supersymmetry would be observed is beyond the capabilities of current particle accelerators. Another possibility is that supersymmetry may not be a fundamental symmetry of nature, but rather an emergent one that is only applicable at certain energy scales.

2. How would the existence of supersymmetric partners affect our understanding of the universe?

If supersymmetry were confirmed, it would have major implications for our understanding of the universe. It would provide a solution to the hierarchy problem, which is the large discrepancy between the weak force and the gravitational force. Supersymmetry would also help to unify the fundamental forces of nature and could potentially provide a candidate for dark matter.

3. What is the main motivation for proposing supersymmetric partners?

The main motivation for proposing supersymmetric partners is to address some of the outstanding issues in particle physics, such as the hierarchy problem and the unification of the fundamental forces. Supersymmetry also has the potential to provide a framework for understanding the particle content of the universe and could offer insights into the nature of dark matter.

4. Are there any experimental hints or indirect evidence for supersymmetric partners?

There have been some hints and indirect evidence for supersymmetry, but so far nothing conclusive. For example, the measured values of certain parameters in the Standard Model seem to be more consistent with supersymmetric theories. However, these hints could also be explained by other theories, so further experimental evidence is needed to confirm or rule out supersymmetry.

5. What are the challenges in discovering supersymmetric partners?

The main challenge in discovering supersymmetric partners is that their masses may be much higher than the energy scales accessible by current particle accelerators. This means that we may need more powerful colliders or new experimental techniques to probe these higher energy scales. Additionally, there are many different possible supersymmetric models, making it difficult to predict the exact properties and behavior of supersymmetric particles. This adds to the challenge of identifying and distinguishing them from other particles in experiments.

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