How to convert a Cartesian vector to polar coordinates and differentiate it?

In summary, the conversation discusses the difficulty of understanding polar coordinates in physics and the need to convert a vector equation from cartesian to polar form. The process of converting the equation is explained step by step, and the final simplified equation for velocity is derived. The speaker also questions if any steps were missed and if anyone has ever had to do a calculation like this.
  • #1
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Hi I pretty much can't get past the first chapter in my physics book until I master the vector representation of polar coordinates.

Every explanation I've read thus far has confused me, I keep thinking in Cartesian terms so I think it'd be great to convert a vector equation from cartesian to polar description and then differentiate (with somebodies help, which I need!).

I have a cartesian based vector,

[tex] r(t) = (2t^2)i + (3t - 2)j + (3t^2 - 1)k [/tex]

I don't know how to go about converting it, could anybody give a helping hint?

Is it even possible? Every book I see polar coordinates mentioned have a [tex] coswt [/tex] etc... already mentioned.

Edit: Thinking about it, just a two dimensional vector would be easier on everyone!

[tex] r(t) = (2t^2)i + (3t - 2)j [/tex]
 
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  • #2
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/4241/vec.jpg

Hopefully this information will help somewhat!
 
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  • #3
[itex] \overline{r} (t) = (2t^2)i + (3t - 2)j [/itex]

[itex] convert \ to \ polar \ coordinates \ of \ the \ form \ \overline{r}(t) = \ r \hat{r} \ then \ differentiate![/itex]

1: First we want to calculate |r| = r.

[itex] r \ = \ | \overline{r} | \ = \ \sqrt{(2t^2)^2 + (3t - 2)^2} \ = \sqrt{4t^4 + 9 t^2- 12t + 4} [/itex]

2: We know our unit vector will be;

[itex] \hat{r} \ = \ cos \theta \ + \ \sin \theta [/itex]

3. Calculate θ!

[itex] \theta \ = \ \arctan( \frac{y}{x} ) \ = \ \arctan(\frac{3t - 2}{2t^2} ) [/itex]

4. We see that [itex] \hat{r} [/itex] must be;

[itex] \hat{r} \ = \ cos \theta \ + \ \sin \theta \ = \ \cos [\arctan(\frac{3t - 2}{2t^2} )] \ + \ \sin [\arctan(\frac{3t - 2}{2t^2} )][/itex]

5. Put the position vector all together, (all are equivalent).

[itex] \overline{r}(t) = \ r \hat{r} [/itex]

[itex] \overline{r}(t) \ = \ [ \sqrt{4t^4 + 9 t^2- 12t + 4} ] \hat{r}[/itex]

[itex] \overline{r}(t) \ = \ [ \sqrt{4t^4 + 9 t^2- 12t + 4} ] [\ cos \theta \ + \ \sin \theta ] [/itex]

[itex] \overline{r}(t) \ = \ ( \sqrt{4t^4 + 9 t^2- 12t + 4} ) (cos \theta ) \ + \ ( \sqrt{4t^4 + 9 t^2- 12t + 4} ) (sin \theta ) [/itex]

[itex] \overline{r}(t) \ = \ ( \sqrt{4t^4 + 9 t^2- 12t + 4} ) ( \cos [\arctan(\frac{3t - 2}{2t^2} )] ) \ + \ \sin ( \arctan(\frac{3t - 2}{2t^2} ) ] ) [/itex]

[itex] \overline{r}(t) \ = ( \sqrt{4t^4 + 9 t^2- 12t + 4} ) ( \cos [\arctan(\frac{3t - 2}{2t^2} ) ] ) \ + ( \sqrt{4t^4 + 9 t^2- 12t + 4} ) ( \ \sin [\arctan(\frac{3t - 2}{2t^2} ) ] ) [/itex]

Alright, so I've set up the position vector as best I can. I'm assuming there's nothing wrong so I'll now take the derivative to find the velocity vector.

6. Using;

[itex] \overline{r}(t) \ = \ [ \sqrt{4t^4 + 9 t^2- 12t + 4} ] [\ cos \theta \ + \ \sin \theta ] [/itex]

I'll differentiate to obtain an equation of the form;

[itex] \overline{v} (t) \ = \ \frac{d \overline{r} }{dt} \ = \ r \frac{d \hat{r}}{dt} \ + \ \frac{dr}{dt} \hat{r} [/itex]

Here I go!

[itex] \frac{d \overline{r} }{dt} \ = \ ( \sqrt{4t^4 + 9 t^2- 12t + 4} ) (- sin \theta \frac{d \theta} {dt} \ + \ cos \theta \frac{d \theta}{dt} ) \ + \ ( \frac{16t^3 \ + \ 18t \ - \ 12}{2 \sqrt{4t^4 + \ 9t^2 - 12t + 4} } ) (\ cos \theta \ + \ \sin \theta ) [/itex]

[itex] \frac{d \overline{r} }{dt} \ = \ ( \sqrt{4t^4 + 9 t^2- 12t + 4} ) (- sin \theta \ + \ cos \theta ) \frac{d \theta}{dt} \ + \ ( \frac{16t^3 \ + \ 18t \ - \ 12}{2 \sqrt{4t^4 + \ 9t^2 - 12t + 4} } ) (\ cos \theta \ + \ \sin \theta ) [/itex]


I didn't dare try to bring in the arctan and it's craziness into this one, (yet...).

7. Look for patterns!

Well,

[itex] r \ = \ \sqrt{4t^4 + 9 t^2- 12t + 4} [/itex]

[itex] \dot{r} \ = \ ( \frac{16t^3 \ + \ 18t \ - \ 12}{2 \sqrt{4t^4 + \ 9t^2 - 12t + 4} } ) [/itex]

[itex] \hat{r} \ = \ cos \theta \ + \ \sin \theta [/itex]

[itex] \frac{ d \hat{r}}{dt} \ = \ ( - \sin \theta \ + \ \cos \theta ) \frac{ d \theta}{dt}[/itex]

We'll set;

[itex] \hat{ \theta } \ = \ (- sin \theta \ + \ cos \theta )[/itex]

&

[itex] \dot{ \theta} \ = \ \frac{d \theta}{dt} [/itex]

to get

[itex] \frac{ d \hat{r}}{dt} \ = \ \hat{ \theta } \dot{ \theta}[/itex]

8. Write the final, simplified equation for velocity.

[itex] \overline{v} (t) \ = \ r \dot{ \theta} \hat{ \theta } \ + \ \dot{r} \hat{r} [/itex]

Comparing the result of 8. with the result of 6. using 7. to be sure we've labelled everything correctly I'd say we have taken a deceptively simple equation in cartesian form, converted it to it's equivalent polar coordinate description & take the derivative of this to obtain the velocity.

Q.E.D.

[tex] \alpha : [/tex]Have I missed anything?

[tex] \beta : [/tex] Have you ever actually had to do a calculation like this??
 

1. What is the difference between Cartesian and Polar vectors?

Cartesian vectors are represented by their x and y components, while polar vectors are represented by their magnitude and direction.

2. How do you convert a Cartesian vector to a Polar vector?

To convert a Cartesian vector to a Polar vector, you can use the Pythagorean theorem to find the magnitude, and then use inverse trigonometric functions to find the direction.

3. What is the formula for converting a Polar vector to a Cartesian vector?

The formula for converting a Polar vector to a Cartesian vector is: x = r * cosθ and y = r * sinθ, where r is the magnitude and θ is the direction.

4. Can a vector have both Cartesian and Polar representations?

Yes, a vector can have both Cartesian and Polar representations. However, the magnitude and direction will remain the same in both forms.

5. What are some real-life applications of Cartesian to Polar vector conversions?

Cartesian to Polar vector conversions are commonly used in navigation and engineering, such as determining the direction and speed of an object's motion or calculating forces and velocities in physics problems.

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