What is the Lagrangian of a Pendulum with Oscillating Top Point?

  • Thread starter the keck
  • Start date
  • Tags
    Lagrangian
In summary, the conversation discusses finding the Lagrangian and equation of motion for a pendulum with an oscillating top point. The Lagrange of the pendulum is derived and the equation of motion is solved, resulting in a final equation that takes into account the oscillation at the top point. The conversation also mentions using a different reference system which may have caused some confusion.
  • #1
the keck
22
0

Homework Statement



Consider a pendulum the top point of which is oscillating vertically as y=a*cos*(gamma*t)

Find its Lagrangian and the equation of emotion

The Attempt at a Solution



I can do most of the question and obtain the Lagrangian, but when I derive the equation, I achieve the same one as that of pendulum which is fixed at the top point i.e. angular velocity or ("theta dot") = -g*sin(theta)/l

This seems strange to me, as I expected the oscillation at the top to vary the equation of motion

Regards,
The Keck
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
Take ordinary x-y plane coordinate (x-right;y-up) and the origin is the oscillating center of the top point. The horizontal plane of the origin is set to be the zero gravitational potential.
The Lagrange of the pendulum is
[tex]L=\frac{m}{2}\left[\left(\dot{y}-l\dot{\theta}\sin\theta\right)^2+\left(l\dot{\theta}\cos\theta\right)^2\right]-\left[-mg\left(l\cos\theta-y\right)\right][/tex]
[tex]=\frac{m}{2}\left[\dot{y}^2-2\dot{y}l\dot{\theta}\sin\theta+l^2\dot{\theta}^2+2g(l\cos\theta-y)\right][/tex]
The equation of motion is
[tex]\frac{\partial L}{\partial\theta}-\frac{d}{dt}\left(\frac{\partial L}{\partial\dot{\theta}}\right)=0[/tex]
[tex]\Rightarrow-2\dot{y}l\dot{\theta}\cos\theta-2gl\sin\theta-\frac{d}{dt}\left(-2\dot{y}l\sin\theta+2l^2\dot{\theta}\right)=0[/tex]
[tex]\Rightarrow-\underline{2\dot{y}l\dot{\theta}\cos\theta}-2gl\sin\theta-\left(-2\ddot{y}l\sin\theta-\underline{2\dot{y}l\dot{\theta}\cos\theta}+2l^2\ddot{\theta}\right)=0[/tex]
[tex]\Rightarrow-2gl\sin\theta-\left(-2\ddot{y}l\sin\theta+2l^2\ddot{\theta}\right)=0[/tex]
[tex]\Rightarrow-2gl\sin\theta+2\ddot{y}l\sin\theta-2l^2\ddot{\theta}=0[/tex]
[tex]\Rightarrow\ddot{\theta}+\frac{g}{l}\sin\theta-\frac{\ddot{y}\sin\theta}{l}=0[/tex]
recall [tex]y=a\cos(\gamma t)[/tex]
the last term vanishes when the top point without oscillating.

i hope there is no mistake in my derivation and the result is your answer.
 
Last edited:
  • #3
Thanks a lot, mate! I used a different reference system, which sort of stuffed me upRegards,
The Keck
 

1. What is the Lagrangian of a pendulum?

The Lagrangian of a pendulum is a mathematical expression that describes the energy of the pendulum system at any given point in time. It takes into account the kinetic energy and potential energy of the pendulum and is used to model the motion of the pendulum.

2. How is the Lagrangian derived for a pendulum?

The Lagrangian is derived using the principle of least action, which states that the motion of a system is determined by the path that minimizes the action, a measure of the system's energy over time. In the case of a pendulum, the Lagrangian is derived by considering the potential and kinetic energy of the pendulum as it swings back and forth.

3. What is the significance of the Lagrangian in understanding pendulum motion?

The Lagrangian is a powerful tool in understanding pendulum motion because it allows us to model the behavior of the system without explicitly solving the equations of motion. This makes it easier to analyze the motion of complex pendulum systems and make predictions about their behavior.

4. How does the Lagrangian of a pendulum change with different initial conditions?

The Lagrangian of a pendulum remains the same regardless of the initial conditions, as long as the length and mass of the pendulum remain constant. However, the equations of motion derived from the Lagrangian will change depending on the initial conditions, resulting in different trajectories and behaviors for the pendulum.

5. Can the Lagrangian be used to study other types of oscillating systems?

Yes, the Lagrangian can be used to study other types of oscillating systems besides pendulums. It is a general framework that can be applied to a wide range of physical systems, including oscillating springs, electromagnetic oscillators, and more.

Similar threads

  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
9
Views
690
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
20
Views
1K
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
14
Views
477
Replies
8
Views
221
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
5
Views
760
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
7
Views
204
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
16
Views
1K
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
2
Views
5K
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
5
Views
1K
Back
Top