Hiding behind the Internet. No anonymity.

[turbo]

Some people think that they can say or do about anything they want on-line with no repercussions. A young woman who works with my wife may soon find out that is not true. She posted on MySpace or FaceBook (my wife was unsure which), saying that all her co-workers were imbeciles, and allegedly made comments to the effect that her co-workers probably couldn't get hired at WalMart. Word spread pretty fast, and she's certainly going to be disciplined, likely fired.

She is a young, clueless girl who already has two kids fathered by two different men and is currently pregnant with the child of yet another man. She hasn't worked at the shoe-shop for long, and most of her co-workers are people with 10-30 years worth of experience in skilled jobs such as leather-cutting, stitching, etc. If you have ever checked out New Balance athletic shoes, you know that they are high-quality products, and they are not made by clueless dummies. The worst part of this is that she is not a line-worker, but acts as a go-between from the line to the line foreman. For someone in a position with a modicum of authority to publicly slam skilled workers on her production team is beyond tasteless. New Balance is a company that highly values teamwork, cohesiveness, and morale. FAIL!

 

[Evo]

Places like MySpace and Facebook have been the downfall of many people. You don't ever want to leave a trail to your real identity on any online website unless you are really, really careful.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

That's why I don't use my real name anywhere online and never mention the names of the places I work. I'm sometimes unsure if I should even have photos of myself up at all.

I have some issues with the idea of people being punished at work for things they say online though people really ought to not be so stupid.

 

[zomgwtf]

She's going to get fired for making comments on a social networking site about her co-workers being imbeciles? That's got to be the most rediculous thing I've ever heard. It has to be against SOME sort of law... like what the hell does telling your friends about the imbecile co-workers you have to put up with at work have to do with keeping your job?

Are they now also going to start firing people when they come home and complain about their boss to the significant other?

As well I don't think it takes much skill to work making shoes... I mean didn't Nike let poor children in China make their running shoes, and I would choose Nike running shoes over NB shoes anyday.

EDIT: Of course maybe you live in a 'right to work' state... but anyways her ranting on facebook or myspace about whatever employee she wants to shouldn't be grounds for dismissal at all and if she's a productive, good worker while she's at work then I highly doubt that's what will happen.

 

[waht]

EDIT: Of course maybe you live in a 'right to work' state... but anyways her ranting on facebook or myspace about whatever employee she wants to shouldn't be grounds for dismissal at all and if she's a productive, good worker while she's at work then I highly doubt that's what will happen.

She called all her co-workers imbeciles. If you were her co-worker then you are an imbecile. Would you want to work with her?

 

[Jack21222]

She's going to get fired for making comments on a social networking site about her co-workers being imbeciles? That's got to be the most rediculous thing I've ever heard. It has to be against SOME sort of law... like what the hell does telling your friends about the imbecile co-workers you have to put up with at work have to do with keeping your job?

Are they now also going to start firing people when they come home and complain about their boss to the significant other?

As well I don't think it takes much skill to work making shoes... I mean didn't Nike let poor children in China make their running shoes, and I would choose Nike running shoes over NB shoes anyday.

EDIT: Of course maybe you live in a 'right to work' state... but anyways her ranting on facebook or myspace about whatever employee she wants to shouldn't be grounds for dismissal at all and if she's a productive, good worker while she's at work then I highly doubt that's what will happen.

The difference between complaining to your spouse and posting it on the internet is everybody can see it on the internet. Posting complaints on the internet is less like talking to your spouse, and more like writing an op-ed in the local paper.

 

[rootX]

She called all her co-workers imbeciles. If you were her co-worker then you are an imbecile. Would you want to work with her?

Depends how worthy she is.

 

[zomgwtf]

The difference between complaining to your spouse and posting it on the internet is everybody can see it on the internet. Posting complaints on the internet is less like talking to your spouse, and more like writing an op-ed in the local paper.

No it's not, they are set-up with privacy options. Normally the privacy options are set to not allow people to read what you write or what others write on your page. etc.

@waht, if she calls me an imbecile so what? Are you going to cry a river until your co-worker gets fired because they call YOU an imbecile? I sure am not and I know that I've worked with a bunch of imbeciles in my past jobs. I complained about them whenever I wanted to whoever I wanted including themselves. If they want to complain about me so be it, I don't really care.
Let your work speak for itself and her work speak for itself as well. turbo-1 did not describe a person who brings this negativity to the workplace... perhaps she was just venting over the internet, is that illegal?

Maybe turbo-1s wife should be fired since he's discussing matters pertaining to her workplace publicly over a forum?! Or that he's discussing internal affairs within the company over the internet which he could only have gotten the information about via his wife?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

She's going to get fired for making comments on a social networking site about her co-workers being imbeciles? That's got to be the most rediculous thing I've ever heard. It has to be against SOME sort of law... like what the hell does telling your friends about the imbecile co-workers you have to put up with at work have to do with keeping your job?

If she identified herself as an employee of the particular company then she is, informally, making herself a representative of that company and so has opened herself up to liability. What would you do if you owned a company and found that one of your workers was publicly stating opinions about the company that could potentially hurt business?

The difference between complaining to your spouse and posting it on the internet is everybody can see it on the internet. Posting complaints on the internet is less like talking to your spouse, and more like writing an op-ed in the local paper.

Not quite. For your analogy to work we would have to be talking about a local paper with a few million pages. I assume it was her own myspace and facebook. Its sort of her own space that friends of hers may come and drop by at. While it is more or less public not many people are going to casually come across the page and read her opinions. Last I heard bitching about work among ones friends in a public place is not exactly something that one can be sued or fired for.

 

[zomgwtf]

If she identified herself as an employee of the particular company then she is, informally, making herself a representative of that company and so has opened herself up to liability. What would you do if you owned a company and found that one of your workers was publicly stating opinions about the company that could potentially hurt business?

Maybe if she had done that but turbo-1s situation does not explain this. All it says that she did was complain about her co-workers. I do not see anything wrong with this... it's not as though this lady is spreading slander about the company. Nor does it explain that she identified herself as an employee of the company, presumably her friends would know where she works though, to whom the message would be pressumably for.

Actually I know plenty of people who just post messages about what they are thinking FOR THEMSELVES. Just so they can write it out, imagine a co-worker snooped through your diary and read personal comments about your workplace and told the boss... is this grounds for dismisal?In fact this looks bad on the company in only ONE way. A person who is a position such as she has (a 'modicum of authority') to not be able to complain about co-workers to supervisors etc. and instead have to complain privately over a social network (she assumed it would be private or else she would have posted it elsewhere) looks bad on the company in my opinion.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Maybe if she had done that but turbo-1s situation does not explain this. All it says that she did was complain about her co-workers. I do not see anything wrong with this... it's not as though this lady is spreading slander about the company. Nor does it explain that she identified herself as an employee of the company, presumably her friends would know where she works though, to whom the message would be pressumably for.

Actually I know plenty of people who just post messages about what they are thinking FOR THEMSELVES. Just so they can write it out, imagine a co-worker snooped through your diary and read personal comments about your workplace and told the boss... is this grounds for dismisal?


In fact this looks bad on the company in only ONE way. A person who is a position such as she has (a 'modicum of authority') to not be able to complain about co-workers to supervisors etc. and instead have to complain privately over a social network (she assumed it would be private or else she would have posted it elsewhere) looks bad on the company in my opinion.

I am more or less on your side regarding whether or not people should be terminated or disciplined for things that they post on the internet. There are however things that people ought to take into consideration when posting on the internet about their thoughts regarding personal acquaintances and the places that they go to on a regular basis. I have seen it myself that people often do not take any care and boldly say what ever they want about whom ever they please. They are the ones who often decide one day suddenly that it is a good idea to make their journal private. They also often wind up eventually ditching a journal and making a new one because too many people whom they have pissed off know about the old one. In short they are drama queens.

Examining the situation we ought to assume that each side of the issue is doing approximately what we would expect from a common example. We can likely assume that the woman Turbo is referring to did not take much precaution to prevent people from reading her posts and likely did say whom she works for and just thought nothing of it. We can also assume that the company did not intentionally spy on her but more likely received information from some employee or friend (this being a small town sort of area) about what had been posted and are perhaps over reacting to something that should not be that big of a deal. There is no reason to take her side or that of the company and start making assumptions that either are doing exactly as they ought.

In the end technically, legally, they likely have cause to fire her if the so choose.

 

[waht]

Let your work speak for itself and her work speak for itself as well. turbo-1 did not describe a person who brings this negativity to the workplace... perhaps she was just venting over the internet, is that illegal?

No it's not illegal. You can complain on people all you want. But there are consequences if your productivity depends on people you dissed. Co-workers like to band together in cliques, and they can make your life more miserable.

As far as the boss is concerned, well it's the bosses show. I'm sure they can find a replacement in this economy if they wanted to.

 

[Char. Limit]

Well, it says that the message spread. Thus, I doubt it was very private...

Turbo, I completely agree with you here. One could argue even that publicly (and make no mistake, Myspace is a public area) calling your coworkers imbeciles creates a "hostile work environment". I'll bet the whole line hates her by now.

 

[JerryClower]

http://www.pleaserobme.com has a list of all people who posted messages to the public proclaiming they were at a place other than their house. Also some lady sued Facebook because every time she rented a movie from BlockBuster, Facebook would post it to all of her friends.

 

[Pythagorean]

That's kind of silly. How do you know people left their house empty? They could easily have family or room mates.

 

[zomgwtf]

Well, it says that the message spread. Thus, I doubt it was very private...

What kind of logic is that? If I send you a PM and you decide to tell everyone that has no bearing on the fact that it was intended to be private.

If I posted something onto my facebook account then I intend that only people who are on my friends list would read it. I would also presume they wouldn't go and tell everyone but alas, some people need to cry about every little thing in their lives... Even crying about other people crying about their lives...

 

[GeorginaS]

Like it or not, posting anything on a public website is presenting it in the public sphere. It's therefore open for public consumption (even this message board) and you are forewarned to be careful what you say because there could be consequences. That's life. You take action and accept the consequences.

Especially with "social networking" sites like Facebook. Pythagorean, some people (lots of people) on Facebook behave as if they're "only" talking to 1,284 of their best friends. They post pictures of their homes, write their address into their profile, and announce when the family is going on vacation, for how long, and where they're going. People know that houses will be left empty or with only casual attendance.

I site such as this one allows a bit more anonymity (at least to other posters -- mods and admin have access to quite a bit of information about us) because we don't post our real names (Facebook behooves you to use your real name so everyone who has ever known you can find you) and, unless we specifically tell people we post here and direct them here, how is someone going to find us? (Other than, say, getting on our computers and going through our histories. Again, unlike Facebook, people don't know to come looking for any of us here.)

And lots and lots of unintended consequences are arising from Facebook and whatnot. Employers are searching Facebook to take a look at prospective employees before hiring them. You know that picture of you face-down in the bathroom passed out with funny faces drawn on your butt in marker? Preceded by all of the pictures of the wicked party you and your friends had where you defaced public property? Yeah. Might want to take that down before applying for a job.

So yes, what turbo's wife's co-worker did was entirely inappropriate and she deserves to be let go for it. As an HR person, if one of my employees was bad-mouthing fellow employees and management on Facebook, that would tell me that they a) don't value their job, b) don't respect the company, c) don't want to work with us. They shot their mouth off in a very public place. I'd be more than happy to help them pursue other career goals.

There is no expectation of privacy on the Internet especially when you put all of your personal information out there. Facebook and Myspace and those sites are designed to do perform precisely that way and most people forget that the whole world is watching.

 

[turbo]

Unfortunately for the young woman with the bad attitude and poor judgement, this is an at-will employment state. You can be fired without cause, and in this case, management probably has sufficient cause anyway. After she managed to tick off all the "imbeciles" on her production team, it's hard to see a future for her at the plant.

 

[Borg]

I have to agree on the side of non-anonymity. If you post, text or email something, you should always treat it as though it WILL end up in the sight of the person you are talking about.

Here's a timely example of Facebook cluelessness that was in the news yesterday. I can only imagine the punishment this guy will suffer.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100303/od_nm/us_israel_facebook_odd"

 

[DavidSnider]

Here's a timely example of Facebook cluelessness that was in the news yesterday. I can only imagine the punishment this guy will suffer.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100303/od_nm/us_israel_facebook_odd"

Punishment? He'll probably become a CNN reporter

 

[turbo]

Unfortunately for the young woman with the bad attitude and poor judgement, this is an at-will employment state. You can be fired without cause, and in this case, management probably has sufficient cause anyway. After she managed to tick off all the "imbeciles" on her production team, it's hard to see a future for her at the plant.

As expected, management was not pleased and fired her. She is single, with two young children and another on the way, so we (state taxpayers) will likely pick up the tab to provide health-care for them.

 

[Evo]

As expected, management was not pleased and fired her. She is single, with two young children and another on the way, so we (state taxpayers) will likely pick up the tab to provide health-care for them.

I wonder if she feels like an imbecile right now?

 

[turbo]

I wonder if she feels like an imbecile right now?

She had a secure, well-paying (for this area) job with health insurance, maternity leave, sick leave, family leave, 401K benefits and a nice employee discount on clothing, shoes, outerwear, etc. All gone, and since she was fired for cause, she won't qualify for unemployment benefits.

If she doesn't feel like an imbecile now, she's deep in denial. Pregnant, unmarried with no health benefits and two little ones to support. Things probably look pretty bleak. To top it off, she had mocked the company on her personal page, saying that they had given her a job so easy that she never had to do any work. That is simply not true - other people holding similar positions are often quite busy helping their team-members so that the work flows very smoothly. She was lazy, and her foreman will probably take heat for not addressing that.

 

[noblegas]

It is alright to post comments that you would not normally expressed due to social and family pressures and sometimes facebook is an outlet for some individuals to expressed their frustruations and grief. But hey, information can leak to people who you might not want looking at your profile, but hey, that's what the private settings on your facebook account are for, so you can limit the number of people who want to view your profile .

Maybe this work setting that she was at is not for her, despite the benefits that she is receiving and she can used this opportunity to find a job that she wants to work at and consequently fill happy at. Both of my parents hate the job that they are at despite the benefits that they received and they both each make well over 60k a year. I guess she values her happiness more than her financial security because apparently she did not care enough to be conscious of potential employees viewing her profile.

 

[turbo]

Maybe this work setting that she was at is not for her, despite the benefits that she is receiving and she can used this opportunity to find a job that she wants to work at and consequently fill happy at. Both of my parents hate the job that they are at despite the benefits that they received and they both each make well over 60k a year. I guess she values her happiness more than her financial security because apparently she did not care enough to be conscious of potential employees viewing her profile.

I think she was just clueless, and that's unfortunate. The problem with starting a job-search in this area is that apart from the paper mill, the company she got fired from is the best-paying employment around, and most businesses have either cut back or closed. There just aren't decent jobs out there to be had. In fact, the plant that she worked at has a lot of employees commuting 50-60 miles or more every day because jobs are so scarce here. It's a very rough job market, with no short-term prospects for improvement. Another woman got fired for repeated absenteeism some time back, and it took a long time for her to find work. She is now working two part-time minimum wage jobs with NO benefits clerking at local grocery stores. That's a big step down from $12/hour with annual bonuses and lots of benefits.

 

[Proton Soup]

Some people think that they can say or do about anything they want on-line with no repercussions. A young woman who works with my wife may soon find out that is not true. She posted on MySpace or FaceBook (my wife was unsure which), saying that all her co-workers were imbeciles, and allegedly made comments to the effect that her co-workers probably couldn't get hired at WalMart. Word spread pretty fast, and she's certainly going to be disciplined, likely fired.

She is a young, clueless girl who already has two kids fathered by two different men and is currently pregnant with the child of yet another man. She hasn't worked at the shoe-shop for long, and most of her co-workers are people with 10-30 years worth of experience in skilled jobs such as leather-cutting, stitching, etc. If you have ever checked out New Balance athletic shoes, you know that they are high-quality products, and they are not made by clueless dummies. The worst part of this is that she is not a line-worker, but acts as a go-between from the line to the line foreman. For someone in a position with a modicum of authority to publicly slam skilled workers on her production team is beyond tasteless. New Balance is a company that highly values teamwork, cohesiveness, and morale. FAIL!

i've always had good experiences with their shoes. most notably, they come in widths and have consistent sizing, meaning i don't need to try them on first, just find the right size.

i expect they'll keep her. because she's a woman and she'll cry and we don't expect women to behave responsibly, anyway. bonus points if she's young and pretty.

 

[GeorginaS]

i expect they'll keep her. because she's a woman and she'll cry and we don't expect women to behave responsibly, anyway. bonus points if she's young and pretty.

Want to substantiate that derogatory commentary about women?

 

[rootX]

i expect they'll keep her. because she's a woman and she'll cry and we don't expect women to behave responsibly, anyway. bonus points if she's young and pretty.

Having an affair with the boss would be another bonus point

 

[turbo]

i expect they'll keep her. because she's a woman and she'll cry and we don't expect women to behave responsibly, anyway. bonus points if she's young and pretty.

Nope! They escorted her out the door sans employee ID. She burned a pretty important bridge. That was all her adult work experience, she has no other skills, and can't get a letter of recommendation.

 

[Proton Soup]

Want to substantiate that derogatory commentary about women?

it's not so much about women as about society. but since you ask, i will cite Debra LaFave

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debra_Lafave

 

[rootX]

it's not so much about women as about society. but since you ask, i will cite Debra LaFave

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debra_Lafave

Lame argument.

I found it better to be a humorous statement.

 

[GeorginaS]

Lame argument.

I found it better to be a humorous statement.

Oh, I see. A snarky comment generalising women was supposed to be humourous.

 

[Char. Limit]

The comment, to me, was not critical of women, but rather how the job market treats women in some areas. Affirmative action laws practically guarantee that the fact that she is a woman is a factor to consider in keeping her. In this situation, of course, it was a relatively insignificant factor that was outweighed by the fact that this woman alienated all of her coworkers, her boss, and the company in general.

Also, any comment we make on this forum will be a generalization. Unless someone other than turbo knows the woman personally?

 

[turbo]

Also, any comment we make on this forum will be a generalization. Unless someone other than turbo knows the woman personally?

She is young and cute but not too bright. She posted those comments to her personal page during work hours when she was on the clock and supposedly "working". Apparently the concepts of surveillance, messages stored on servers, etc, were foreign to her.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

They shot their mouth off in a very public place. I'd be more than happy to help them pursue other career goals.

So if I'm in a bad mood and upset with my coworkers I should avoid going to say some bar where someone may over hear me saying mean things about them to my friends?