Poincaré Stability: How to Show Paths Remain in Circle?

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In summary, the conversation is about a problem regarding stability of a DE and finding the equation of phase paths. The problem involves showing that for the path y=0, all paths which start in (x+1)^2+y^2=δ^2 subsequently remain in a circle of radius δ[1+(1+δ)^2] centered on y=0. The participants discuss different methods of solving the problem, including finding the tangent between the circle and the phase paths, and using the result that any trajectory passing through (-1,δ) reaches its maximum at (0,2δ). They also consider the possibility of finding the trajectory that intersects the circle at exactly one point, but conclude that it may not be worth the effort
  • #1
tobythetrain
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Hey Guys!

I'm having MAJOR difficulty with a problem regarding stability of a DE. The problem goes as following:

Find the equation of the phase paths of x˙=1+x^2, y˙=−2xy. It is obvious from the phase diagram that y=0 is Poincaré stable. Show that for the path y=0, all paths which start in (x+1)^2+y^2=δ^2 subsequently remain in a circle of radius δ[1+(1+δ)^2] centered on y=0

Finding phase paths is easy, and is expressed by:

y=C/(1+x^2)

I now see the phase paths all converges to y=0, and therefor is poincarè stabile, but the last part of the exercise is causing me a lot of problems...

To show that all paths which starts in (x+1)^2+y^2=δ^2, i have tried finding the tangent between the circle and the phase paths, which will give me the highest y-value at x=0. Since the phase paths are symetric around x=0, and maximun value at the point. But I only get complex solutions, and they are no good...

Any tips on how to go from here?
 
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  • #2
Do you have the result that any trajectory that passes through the point (-1,δ) reaches it's max at (0,2δ)? This is easy to show and is essentially just as good a result for qualitative purposes. Finding the trajectory that intersects the circle at exactly one point (I think this is want you tried to do), combined with the result above should give your result but finding that intersection gives an ugly equation.
 
  • #3
Thanks for replying on this subject, Alan2, I do apreciate it!

That's actually the first result I got, but i realized that it would not give the max value of any trajectory starting fra the small circle. My logic told me that the trajectory I was looking for did not start in (-1,δ), but in a point where the tangent av the circle was equal to the tangent of the trajectory. That's when i started looking for the trajectory that would intersect the circle in just one point, and trace that trajectory to x=0 and compute it's value. Then I would compare this to the known radius of the bigger circle
How is the trajectory from the point (-1,δ) as good a result as any? I don't see the logic in this...
Thanks again for any help!
 
  • #4
Yes you are correct. There is some value of x<-1 where the trajectory intersects the circle in exactly one point, that trajectory is tangent to the circle, and it achieves a larger max at x=0 than does the trajectory that passes through the circle at x=-1. I wrote out the equations and I wouldn't want to solve it. It just looks to me as if it's not worth it. From a strictly qualitative point of view, I would just want to show that the trajectories can't escape. So I might say if the point passes through this unknown point then clearly it also passes through (-1,a), where a is larger than delta, and thus attains its max of 2a at x=0. I guess I would judge that it's not worth my time to find the exact coordinates of that unknown point if all that I really wanted to show was that the trajectories are stable.
 

1. What is Poincaré stability?

Poincaré stability is a mathematical concept used to describe the behavior of a dynamic system, specifically in relation to the stability of its orbits or paths. It is named after French mathematician Henri Poincaré, who first developed the theory.

2. How do you show that paths remain in a circle?

To show that paths remain in a circle, we use the Poincaré stability theorem, which states that if a system's potential energy is bounded and its kinetic energy is conserved, then its paths will remain in a closed loop or a circle. This can be proven mathematically through the use of Poincaré's equations and Lyapunov's stability theory.

3. What are the applications of Poincaré stability?

Poincaré stability has various applications in fields such as physics, engineering, and astronomy. It is used to study the stability of celestial bodies, analyze the behavior of mechanical systems, and predict the long-term behavior of complex systems.

4. Can Poincaré stability be applied to chaotic systems?

Yes, Poincaré stability can be applied to chaotic systems. In fact, Poincaré's work on the three-body problem and the behavior of the solar system paved the way for the study of chaos theory. However, the concept of stability in chaotic systems is different and is better described by the theory of chaos.

5. How is Poincaré stability related to the theory of dynamical systems?

Poincaré stability is closely related to the theory of dynamical systems, as it is used to analyze the long-term behavior of a system over time. The theory of dynamical systems studies the evolution of a system's state over time, taking into account external influences and the system's internal dynamics. Poincaré stability is one of the tools used to analyze the stability and behavior of a dynamical system.

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