Which of these animals experiences something?

[PIT2]

Which of http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/5121/fishamoebeen3mp.jpg (fish, ant, amoebe) do u think experiences something and thus possesses some form of consciousness, and why do u think so?

 

[arildno]

I voted for all three.
Every single one of the organisms needs to be able to respond to some input; for example, every one of them is able to orient itself to a food source due to received info.

This ability to process, evaluate and act upon received data (making the data into "info", if you like) is a core element of any "experience".
To use the concept of "consciousness" here is, however, rather misplaced.

 

[fargoth]

i haven't made up my mind yet,
because i have a problem with the definition of "experiance" and "consciousness".

if ameba experiances something by getting input and acting on it, i think some AI programs experience something as well.

maybe its just a question of how complicated your decision mechanism is...

 

[Orefa]

i have a problem with the definition of "experiance" and "consciousness".

Ditto. I guess this is actually the gist of this question: how can you define consciousness? What qualifies as a mental activity? Is a nervous system required or not? Is simple reaction at the cellular level sufficient? Many questions are raised by this, and there may be no true answer besides a subjective opinion. Well, I'll give it a shot.

I think consciousness would require some ability to store and use information instead of just reacting to the environment mechanically. If unicellular organisms don't possesses such a system then I would not call them conscious. (They don't, do they?)

Ants do remember where they found food so that would qualify. They can acquire information, process it somehow and change their behaviour accordingly. Fish too. Ok, I'm ready to vote.

 

[PIT2]

I think consciousness would require some ability to store and use information instead of just reacting to the environment mechanically. If unicellular organisms don't possesses such a system then I would not call them conscious. (They don't, do they?)

Ants do remember where they found food so that would qualify. They can acquire information, process it somehow and change their behaviour accordingly. Fish too. Ok, I'm ready to vote.

This is an article about bacteria which i recently read, and according to which bacteria also behave the way u describe fish and ants do ('acquire information, process it, change behaviour'):

Yet the humble microbes may have a rudimentary form of intelligence, some researchers have found. The claims seem to come as a final exclamation point to a long series of increasingly surprising findings of sophistication among the microbes, including apparent cases of cooperation and even altruism.

This behavior is strikingly versatile, researchers have found in recent years; bacteria can cope with a remarkably wide range of situations by taking appropriate actions for each. For instance, the deadly Pseudomonas aeruginosa can make a living by infecting a wide variety of animal and plant tissues, each of which is a very different type of environment in which to live and find sustenance.

Furthermore, bacteria cooperate: they can group together to take on tasks that would be difficult or impossible for one to handle alone. In a textbook example, millions of individuals of the species Myxococcus xanthus can bunch up to form a “predatory” colony that moves and changes direction collectively toward possible food sources.

Some examples of bacterial cooperation have even led researchers to propose that bacteria exhibit a form of altruism. For instance, some strains of Escherichia coli commit suicide when infected by a virus, thereby protecting their bacterial neighbors from infection.

One example of what such a system could accomplish: a bit of food brushing against the cell could start a series of events that lead inside the cell and activate genes that generate the chemicals that digest the food.

A single bacterium can contain dozens of such systems operating simultaneously for different purposes. And compared to the board game, the cellular systems have additional features that make them more complicated and versatile.

For instance, some of these bacterial contraptions, when set in motion, lead to the formation of extra copies of themselves. These tricks can lead to phenomena with aspects of learning and language.

For example, a shortage of a nutrient in a bacterium’s neighborhood can activate a system that makes the microbe attract the nutrient toward itself more strongly. The system also produces extra copies of itself, researchers have found. Thus if shortage recurs later, the bacterium is better prepared. This is a form of “learning,” Hellingwerf and colleagues wrote in the August, 2001 issue of the Journal of Bacteriology.
http://www.world-science.net/exclusives/050418_bactfrm.htm

It says that bacteria may have a form of intelligence. Does intelligence need consciousness?

 

[Orefa]

This is an article about bacteria which i recently read, and according to which bacteria also behave the way u describe fish and ants do ('acquire information, process it, change behaviour'):

Interesting article. But what they describe does not really match the idea of storing information, it mainly describes the pre-existing versatility of various unicellular organisms. We know that many of them can adapt to various conditions, but with the exception of the last paragraph these descriptions don't show any learning. They simply show built-in mechanisms to react to a large set of situations. I don't think each cell actually learns or remembers anything from these experiences.

The last paragraph is more interesting. It describes something that may be interpreted as learning since the cell is actually transformed in a way that makes it more fit to repeat a previous experience. There is still quite a difference between this and learning in the sense of "storing information". The cell may be transformed, but so are your muscles as you spend time doing manual labour, which makes you more fit for the task when it repeats itself. I don't see bulkier muscles as stored data but enhanced physical potential. I don't equate fitness for a task to consciousness.

It says that bacteria may have a form of intelligence. Does intelligence need consciousness?

Intelligence is a potential. It can remain unused. Intelligence without any input is probably not conscious of anything since, well, it has nothing to be conscious of. But provide it with some sensory data and I say you have consciousness.

And then, is consciousness possible without intelligence? I don't think so, because then you only have mechanical reactions, like what I see in unicellular organisms. I consider intelligence to be closely associated with learning abilities. I cannot call something intelligent unless it can learn. And learning requires remembering, storing data.

 

[pace]

Anti-anxiety: I also think that a bacteria have a free will. Thus I believe in some level of not being afraid of the concept that a virus, like Aids, shall exterminate all of us. That it rather 'wants' to live, in it's own way. And if it totally takes out all it's 'victims', it'll know, on some level, that it'll not be able to live itself.

 

[DrDeath]

i would have to go with the others on this anything that can respond in anyway no matter how subtle is experiencing something in order to make it respond. you don't need consciousness for this though, for example there are types of flower which respond to sunlight and move their heads to face the sun as it travels across the sky. this is a response to an external stimuli which would clasify as the plant having experienced a change in the photosensitentive data it was receiving and acting accordingly to compensate. however i wouldn't say a flower was conscious as that word generally implies a level of self awarness which comes with being a higher level sentient being.