Understanding ADHD & Ritalin for Focus and Attention Improvement

[pmb_phy]

I need some help here. My psychiatrist believes that its possible that my problem with focusing my attention could be a result of ADHD or my chronic depression. He prescribed Ritalin. Does anyone have first hand knowledge of what its like to take this stuff?

Thanks

Pete

 

[Astronuc]

It's possible that Ritalin (methylphenidate) would help. It stimulates the brain centers and helps people with ADHD 'focus'.

My son takes Concerta, a time released version of Ritalin. He really does need it to focus.

http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/methylphen.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylphenidate


You might want to get a second opinion on Ritalin as a possible treatment for depression. It seems from the literature that people with anxiety, tension, or agitation should not take Concerta.

http://www.concerta.net/concerta/pages/importantprodinfo.jsp

 

[pmb_phy]

You might want to get a second opinion on Ritalin as a possible treatment for depression. It seems from the literature that people with anxiety, tension, or agitation should not take Concerta.

Thanks for the response.

My psychiatrist knows me well enough to know whether what he was doing when he prescribed it to me. I 'll start taking it this Tuesday. I'll keep this thread informed of my progress so that others with concentration problems can learn of my reaction to it.

Pete

 

[baywax]

The Boston Globe report

An alternative to Ritalin prescribes exercise instead

Albani said she was doubtful, at first, of the center's contention that physical exercises like tossing a beanbag and balancing on a wobble board could improve his focus and mental processing. But after just six months in the two-year program, which costs $4,500, her son had shown impressive gains, she said.
''I was skeptical because it's not a proven treatment," she said. ''But it's helped him so much."

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ar...ative_to_ritalin_prescribes_exercise_instead/

Here's the address for the Adult ADD Support group (edit:The Dore program was created in England six years ago by Wynford Dore, who was trying to find a cure for his daughter's severe dyslexia.)

http://www.maaddsg.org/news_5_4_06.htm Defrauding pharmaceutical marketing claims with expert commentary.

http://www.adhdfraud.org/commentary/12-8-00-1.htm

 

[K.J.Healey]

Are you currently on antidepressants? I had a friend that noticed when he was on antidepressants, i don't remember which, but its major effect clouded his focus. This helped him lead a happier life, but made it neigh impossible for me to tutor him in Fields. He asked his phsych about it and they refused to recommend ritalin or aderol, and instead said to start taking half doses. He did notice a difference in his focus and grades.
I'd recommend some research on related problems if your'e currently on anti depressants. And perhaps a second medical opinion.

 

[pmb_phy]

Are you currently on antidepressants? I had a friend that noticed when he was on antidepressants, i don't remember which, but its major effect clouded his focus. This helped him lead a happier life, but made it neigh impossible for me to tutor him in Fields. He asked his phsych about it and they refused to recommend ritalin or aderol, and instead said to start taking half doses. He did notice a difference in his focus and grades.
I'd recommend some research on related problems if your'e currently on anti depressants. And perhaps a second medical opinion.

I already got a second opinion today. All my doctors, especially my psychiatrist who is the expert on what antidepresants can do, is the one who prescribed the Ritalin. As far as it works, time will tell. I have to first determine whether I can tolerate it. Then we wait to see if it either helps or hinders. Seems to me that your friend should have tried another anti-depressant, not stop them all together. That's just jumping the gun way too soon.

I recommend that your friend ask his doc for a different anti-depressant.

Pete

 

[wuliheron]

Yes, whatever you do, don't expect instant gratification. It may take up to three years to find what works with your particular body chemistry.

 

[baywax]

Yes, whatever you do, don't expect instant gratification. It may take up to three years to find what works with your particular body chemistry.

Try three years of the bean-bag balancing therapy and other physical excercises. Its actually better understood as a treatment than Ritalin and to say the least, anything can happen in three years. Throw some swimming in for good measure. Or try this phys ex stuff along with the Ritalin as a suppliment.

 

[pmb_phy]

Try three years of the bean-bag balancing therapy and other physical excercises. Its actually better understood as a treatment than Ritalin and to say the least, anything can happen in three years. Throw some swimming in for good measure. Or try this phys ex stuff along with the Ritalin as a suppliment.

Due to back injury I can't exercise. I started the Ritalin today and noticed a change. So far so good!

Pete

 

[pmb_phy]

Update - This Ritalin stuff is wonderful. I feel very different than I used to. A feeling I've never had which means the way I was before was my standard for judging my abilities to myself. Now its like a fog has lifted and I can relax. It feels like my mind was always "turned on" and this made me compulsive in my studies.

If it gets better then I will consider this the answer to my all those prayers I gave God about these problems (Yes, yes. I'm a devout Christian).

Thanks and I'll keep you updated if this gets better or degenerates and makes me ill. Wish good things for me okay folks? I would appreciated it - ower of positive thinking and all that.

Best regards

Pete

 

[Astronuc]

Best wishes and good luck for a sustained improvement. I hope it continues to work.

One might find though that the body adapts, as it does with any medication.

Exercise is a good thing to do on a regular basis, both for physical fitness and mental health.

 

[pmb_phy]

Best wishes and good luck for a sustained improvement. I hope it continues to work.

One might find though that the body adapts, as it does with any medication.

Exercise is a good thing to do on a regular basis, both for physical fitness and mental health.

Thanks very much Astronuc. I sure wish I could exercise. A few years ago I had major surgery on it to relieve pressure on my sciatic nerve. Unfortunately I'll have to live with this pain the rest of my life. Right now we keep it under control by pain meds. I tried joining a gym to slowly get the muscles in my body stronger. I went at a snails pace and my back pain started to degenerate along with a new problem with knew pain. So I won't be able to exercise anymore.

Feels good to feel good. I don't remember my brain not racing anymore. Actually I never knew it was racing until it wasn't anymore!

Best wishes

Pete

 

[Astronuc]

One could try swimming or exercise in water. Some elderly people with arthritis or joint issues use water to help buoy the body and relieve some stress on the joints and muscles.

Exercise is really important - even if only upper body.

 

[Noxide]

It helps. A lot.

IQ without methylphenidate HCl in bloodstream 151.
IQ with methylphenidate HCl in bloodsteam 184.

Let me reiterate. It helps a lot.

2 hours after taking it, I felt as though I had missed out on so much.
If you need it, get on it.
If you don't, don't.

 

[Galteeth]

It helps. A lot.

IQ without methylphenidate HCl in bloodstream 151.
IQ with methylphenidate HCl in bloodsteam 184.

Let me reiterate. It helps a lot.

2 hours after taking it, I felt as though I had missed out on so much.
If you need it, get on it.
If you don't, don't.

I have found that methylphenidate helps with short term spatial memory but is slightly detrimental to free-form association. There is an excellent article on this subject in scientific american. The effects of methylphenidate also vary greatly from individual to individual, and are not consistently predictable ( as well as diminishing over time with repeated use).

 

[rainbow93]

Ritalin is a good drug for ADHD, but we don't know much about its long term use and effects. It also can be used for depression, although there isn't much research into the effectiveness in that use.

 

[DaveC426913]

My son was diagnosed with ADD many years ago and was put on Ritalin. It had a dramatic (positive) effect on his ability to concentrate.

[D'OH! Fell for the ol' necroposting trick...]

 

[Galteeth]

Ritalin is a good drug for ADHD, but we don't know much about its long term use and effects. It also can be used for depression, although there isn't much research into the effectiveness in that use.

In my own personal experience, it is helpful as an adjunct for depression, but only in the short term (about a week). Dopamenergic circuits are subject to quite viscious feedback adjustment.

 

[rainbow93]

It also feels quite dangerous to take a stimulant medication for its mood changing properties. It seems like a quick path to addiction.

 

[J12345]

my children took it in H.S and it helped them focus and graduate. on your OCD problem, one of my children now 25 has this serious disorder which includes a syptom called Bain Lock {look it up} She is under treatment with a Psych MD and psychologist who specializes in this. Cognitive therapy is helpful but also therapy developed ny Japanese psychiatrist named Morita. It is a neurological brain disorder of communication pathway disruptions. There IS an antidepressant that also works on OCD -ask your MD Psych. Morita focused on diversion. When symptoms appear start doing something physical that you really HATE doing like cleaning the house and keep doing it focusing intensely on the cleaning- whatever it is that you HATE doing. It refocuses the brain off the OCD. Good luck.

 

[denverdoc]

Not to hijack the thread, but Morita was an interesting guy. At the risk of great oversimplification, I believe there is great value in the idea of "chopping wood/carrying water" as a means of therapy. As a psychiatric resident I often felt (and was chided for by supervisors) that many of my patients seemed excessively self-involved and that traditional psychoanalysis might actually worsen the condition, and even foster a dependence on the therapist. I felt vindicated after discovering David Reynolds and learning of Morita. I believe there is still much to be gained from this and similar approaches. For those with any interest in the Morita school, this seems to be a http://www.todoinstitute.org/morita.html"

 

[J12345]

Having watched my childrens' suffering, I am fairly sure that I had ADD as a kid. I also had/have small movement disorder Tourettes. There were no meds back in the 50's and 60's. Nothing helped until I discovered biofeedback and ZEN as an adult. Much truth to chopping wood/carrying water if one has ever spent time in a ZEN center. The ZEN experience has broken the ADD type 'monkey mind' problems. This is what Morita used in his approach. I am sure that it would benefit my children but they are in their 20's and hard to talk to. Consider at least biofeedback training.

 

[DaveC426913]

a symptom called Brain Lock {look it up}

I tried looking it up. All I found was a preponderance of references to a book with a 4-step program.

This is somewhat concerning because it makes me wonder if you've been handed a $ product rather than a legitimate clinical condition.

Can you list some non-commercial references to this symptom?

 

[RonL]

my children took it in H.S and it helped them focus and graduate. on your OCD problem, one of my children now 25 has this serious disorder which includes a syptom called Bain Lock {look it up} She is under treatment with a Psych MD and psychologist who specializes in this. Cognitive therapy is helpful but also therapy developed ny Japanese psychiatrist named Morita. It is a neurological brain disorder of communication pathway disruptions. There IS an antidepressant that also works on OCD -ask your MD Psych. Morita focused on diversion. When symptoms appear start doing something physical that you really HATE doing like cleaning the house and keep doing it focusing intensely on the cleaning- whatever it is that you HATE doing. It refocuses the brain off the OCD. Good luck.

I'm not sure I understand "when symptoms appear", every moment I'm awake my mind plays like a movie projector with no set program, anything I look at triggers thoughts that go in uncontrollable directions. The thing I hate most is doing paperwork, when I try to put books away and file papers, I will see something that changes my focus and that generally means more books come out and form a new stack.

I do take ritalin but only sometimes feel that things are being controlled.

Ron

 

[DaveC426913]

I'm not sure I understand "when symptoms appear", every moment I'm awake my mind plays like a movie projector with no set program, anything I look at triggers thoughts that go in uncontrollable directions. The thing I hate most is doing paperwork, when I try to put books away and file papers, I will see something that changes my focus and that generally means more books come out and form a new stack.

How interesting. I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone able to describe ADHD from the inside. I'm not sure even my son has been able to describe it (at least, not in the last 15 years or so).

 

[J12345]

What you are describing is my child's worst version of OCD. The non-medical name is Brain Lock. I believe that is the name of a book written on the subject. Try Amazon. It is more severe than ADD mind drift. The drug that helps stop it for her is Atavan an anti anxiety med. My child takes it as needed. You have a neurological disorder in the high end of anxiety specterum as was described to my child. Not many Psych MD's are familiar with this disorder. If by chance your live in Mass., McClane's Hospital/Clinic is the ONLY center that specializes in this BUT you have to commit 3 months living there for the residential treatment. My child could not give up college and life so has to work with the therapist who was trained there. Too many psychs relegate this to the realm of psychotic disorders and try to treat it that way which is to me malpractice. It is not psychosis and antipsychotics don't help so be careful. The resident psych who just weighed in? What do they teach in med school about OCD 'brain lock'.

 

[alxm]

Sure I've got first hand experience. Lifelong sufferer, but only diagnosed at 24.

I've had good use of both Ritalin (both as such and Concerta) as well as amphetamines. I'm currently on the latter, because I seems I've got a relatively high tolerance for the former, which meant that the dosages I was taking was raising my blood pressure too much. (not to dangerous levels, but enough that I could feel it)

I really can't tell much of a difference when I've taken the drugs. Really, no mood-altering effect at all. And for the gazillionth time, it's nowhere near the levels which would cause addiction. (and research doesn't substantiate that fear either) What I use in a month or two wouldn't last a speed-freak a weekend. I have never ever felt any withdrawal of any kind. Going a day without coffee is much much worse - at least I notice it!

The difference, being with concentration and so on, is instead rather subtle. Basically I mainly notice the difference in that days when I've taken the drug are days when I un-coincidentally get a lot of work done. It's not entirely as good an effect as I once hoped for, but it's still a lot better than the alternative.

I think it's awful that the subject has been highjacked by pseudoscience, alternative-medicine snake-oil peddlers, and well-meaning but misguided parent-activists. I mean, hello? There are lots of us adults with ADD/ADHD out there and we're completely capable of speaking for ourselves!

Finally, to express a somewhat radical position myself: I don't believe over-prescription or over-diagnosis is a problem compared to the alternative. Because there's no evidence these drugs are harmful at the levels given, and I simply don't believe people will continue to take a drug if they aren't feeling they get a benefit from it.

I view the 'false negative' scenario as far worse: A kid growing up and being constantly told by parents, teachers and others that he's 'stupid', 'lazy' or 'undiciplined' for behavior he or she is simply not capable of controlling. That's simply child abuse. (And parents are victims in that scenario as well, being constantly told by others that their 'failures' as a parent are to blame)


Anyway.. To the OP: Difficult question. Lack of concentration can be caused by depression, but ADHD is also known to cause depressions. (and has in me, repeatedly) And various antidepressants interact with ADHD medication differently. (SSRIs vs Bupropion for instance) If you're not already I'd suggest talking to a neuropsychiatrist with ADD/ADHD as a speciality.

I agree with RonL here, I couldn't say 'when symptoms appear'. Other than that some times are worse than others, some situations are worse than others and naturally, some tasks require more concentration than others. I'd describe it similarily. We're all constantly barraged with a load of impulses compelling us to do something other than what we're doing.. "Check your email", "Look out the window", "Come to think of it..". ** The difference is, normal folks can choose to ignore these impulses. But in my brain, they're 'louder'. I just follow them (without thought or consideration of course, that's what makes it an impulse') For instance where I left the two asterisks (**) I actually got up and took a few steps around the room, and got back in my chair and continued writing. I can't say why I did that. Just a spontaneous restless impulse.

So my train of thought gets derailed very easily.. But just as the 'derailment' is involuntary, I can't often get back on the right track through conscious effort either. If I can't concentrate, I just can't.

Through good fortune (and/or genes) I managed in school, thanks to good intelligence and a very good memory. (i.e. didn't pay attention much in class but remembered more of the parts I did pay attention to) But you still get stuck with some social issues. It's really hard for some people to understand/accept, for instance, that if I'm not listening to you, it has nothing to do with what you're talking about. If I can't pay attention, that's just it. But people instinctively assume they're boring you, which sucks.
(Making matters worse; the hyperactivity typically makes you an avid talker. What a great social combination.. Big talker, bad listener.)

That's in a way the real curse of ADD/ADHD. It's a 'hidden disorder'. Unlike say, OCD. I don't do anything 'abnormal', like switching the lights on five times in a row. People see that and they recognize that it's involuntary. But those of us with ADD/ADHD.. We don't do anything 'normal' people don't do. Ordinary folks can talk a lot, be bad listeners, get restless, etc.. But we do these things for different reasons. My behavior constantly gets misinterpreted.

To me, (since I can handle the learning and such) that's really the worst, or one of the worst aspects. And not one you hear about a lot, actually.

 

[denverdoc]

What you are describing is my child's worst version of OCD. The non-medical name is Brain Lock. I believe that is the name of a book written on the subject. Try Amazon. It is more severe than ADD mind drift. The drug that helps stop it for her is Atavan an anti anxiety med. My child takes it as needed. You have a neurological disorder in the high end of anxiety specterum as was described to my child. Not many Psych MD's are familiar with this disorder. If by chance your live in Mass., McClane's Hospital/Clinic is the ONLY center that specializes in this BUT you have to commit 3 months living there for the residential treatment. My child could not give up college and life so has to work with the therapist who was trained there. Too many psychs relegate this to the realm of psychotic disorders and try to treat it that way which is to me malpractice. It is not psychosis and antipsychotics don't help so be careful. The resident psych who just weighed in? What do they teach in med school about OCD 'brain lock'.

Too many psychs relegate this to the realm of psychotic disorders

Boy that seems strange--I don't know a single psychiatrist trained in the past 25 years who would confuse OCD and psychosis. Now there are some strange disorders such as Body dysmorphic disorder, some types of delusional disorders, and somatoform/hypochondriacal type of disorders that take on psychotic proportions and are occasionally helped with anti-psychotic medications--most often in conjunction with an antidepressant or benzodiazapene. Many of the antidepressant meds have anti-OCD effects and because they seem to relieve the symptoms and not wear off, and are not associated with abuse/dependence issues like Ativan, etc, are the pharmacologic treatment of choice. Brain lock was not a term I am familier with, but found it on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/dp/0060987111/?tag=pfamazon01-20

Cognitive therapy of which this appears to be a form is the non-pharmacologic treatment of choice. Of all the disorders I have seen, OCD must be the most miserable to suffer from.

OCD, btw is completely different from ADHD, though there is a clustering seen with the two and Tourette's. This has to be among the most difficult illnesses to treat as stimulants such as Concerta/ritalin will likely exacerbate the OCD and Tourette's if present.

 

[J12345]

Thank you for your quick relpy. I hope it is helping here. My child is on an antidepressant that works. And has the Ativan as needed when the 'brain lock' symptom becomes overwhelming. She has been incorrectly diagnosed as psychotic by two Psych MDs twice overdosed on a psych med and had to be taken to ER later with dystonia symtoms. Latest incorrect hospitalization, the psych MD ignored her, was a natriopath and stood behind her to feel her chakra. There are some real ignorant dangerous jerks out there practicing medicine. I am only telling the fellow here to be very careful and research as much as he can on legit websites about his condition. Perhaps you can direct him as a MD? My child now finally is being seen by the best psychpharmacologist who teaches at local med college.

 

[denverdoc]

Thank you for your quick relpy. I hope it is helping here. My child is on an antidepressant that works. And has the Ativan as needed when the 'brain lock' symptom becomes overwhelming. She has been incorrectly diagnosed as psychotic by two Psych MDs twice overdosed on a psych med and had to be taken to ER later with dystonia symtoms. Latest incorrect hospitalization, the psych MD ignored her, was a natriopath and stood behind her to feel her chakra. There are some real ignorant dangerous jerks out there practicing medicine. I am only telling the fellow here to be very careful and research as much as he can on legit websites about his condition. Perhaps you can direct him as a MD? My child now finally is being seen by the best psychpharmacologist who teaches at local med college.

I am sorry to hear of your daughters poor experience at the hands of this quack. It is unfortunate indeed that the specialty continues to attract more than its share of kooks and fruits. I hope I didn't come across as some pompous ***--but the kinds of mistakes you're talking about are malpractice.

It really is a legitimate branch of medicine--mostly. I say that because there are some pretty weird therapies that even today receive mainstream support,and IMHO for which double blinded clinical evidence is lacking. But the important thing is that there are knowledgeable practitioners and reasonably efficacious medications as your daughter's case shows. Only forty years ago schiophrenia was being blamed on bad parenting.

 

[J12345]

thank you- but getting back to the fellow who needs help here, can you direct him to legitimate web sites where he can research his condition? AND did they teach you anything about the 'brainlock' part of OCD in med school? 3 previous Psych MD's my child saw thought this was 'psychosis'. This person asking for help here may be misdiagnosed as such.

As per the malpractice part of my child's treatment, it was enough to talk to and complain to the head of the psych dept in the hospital to let him know of our displeasure and while in the E.R demand to know how to proceed with the dystonia. And with the help of my own Psych MD and the local university Psych Dept found adequate providers. No reason to pursue the bad providers.

 

[denverdoc]

thank you- but getting back to the fellow who needs help here, can you direct him to legitimate web sites where he can research his condition? AND did they teach you anything about the 'brainlock' part of OCD in med school? 3 previous Psych MD's my child saw thought this was 'psychosis'. This person asking for help here may be misdiagnosed as such.

As per the malpractice part of my child's treatment, it was enough to talk to and complain to the head of the psych dept in the hospital to let him know of our displeasure and while in the E.R demand to know how to proceed with the dystonia. And with the help of my own Psych MD and the local university Psych Dept found adequate providers. No reason to pursue the bad providers.

Jim,

I will PM you re some of what you ask.

As to brain lock, afaik the term was coined somewhat recently and . I am still not sumay not be in the general lexicon of shrinkspeak. I am not sureexactly what it means as my search results were much like those DaveC mentions--mostly the work of the two who wrote the book I found available at amazon. Maybe you could tell me your understanding. Often self help and/or commercial programs generate their own jargon.

Not to make light of the situation, but many of my students complain of brain lock or freeze during exams. As they have no history of other OCD spectrum stymptoms, I always considered this more as a form of performance anxiety/stress. Constant and repetitive ruminatations is more along what I was taught as being an OCD symprom. It may well be that OCD sufferers, obviously having a severe anxiety disorder, are also more prone to suffer from other anxiety symptoms. And no I wasn't suggesting you take action, only that based on what you said of the situation, it is certainly an egregious error. To the best of my knowledge, an acute dystonic reaction like you mention is w/o any long term consequence, is easily antidoted, but horribly, horribly distressing while it lasts. It would be difficult to claim damages in such a case, but obviously I'm not a lawyer.

 

[J12345]

Dave C described it well. Constant and repetitive disturbing ruminatations like a computer loop. In my child's case it is a compulsive need to keep doing mathmatical calculations or keep saying the lyrics of a song, also my child is an artist so suddenly the need to 'draw' in the air anything seen and fingers start moving involuntarily as though they were drawing. The symptom feeds on itself and produces killer anxiety and fear and mental stress. And like I said Ativan stops it w/in minutes. The brain gets ' locked ' into a repetitive thought loop.

 

[denverdoc]

Oh, ok. We are talking about some of the hallmarks of the disease. As a kid I would count a lot--like the seconds between a search light sweep, and perform calculations like the powers of 2 before I knew what they were. I see some of the same behaviors in my daughter. Doubtless there is a good chunk of genetic influence. At one time it was associated with childhood measles--not sure if that association still holds. Hard to say in the USA with the MMR vaccine.

For the most part I outgrew them and never had the type of repetitive, intrusive thought that plagues many sufferers of OCD, that of comitting some violent act. In the most classic cases, the compulsion (behavior) relieves the anxiety generated by the obsession. But only for seconds, minutes or hours before the anxiety builds up again, generating the need to self-sooth thru the compusion, ad infinitum. Since reality testing is undisturbed, ie NOT a psychotic disorder, cognitive therapy is often very helpful in recognizing and redirecting the thoughts over time. Ativan is a powerful and fast acting antianxiety agent which is often helpful on an as needed basis as your daughter's success shows. But more unbelievable still is that at least where I trained, Freudian psychoanalysis was still being used--on kids no less.

One other interesting factoid about OCD is it is is the only mental illness to my knowledge fo which a "lobotomy" is still indicated.

 

[Galteeth]

my children took it in H.S and it helped them focus and graduate. on your OCD problem, one of my children now 25 has this serious disorder which includes a syptom called Brain Lock {look it up} She is under treatment with a Psych MD and psychologist who specializes in this. Cognitive therapy is helpful but also therapy developed ny Japanese psychiatrist named Morita. It is a neurological brain disorder of communication pathway disruptions. There IS an antidepressant that also works on OCD -ask your MD Psych. Morita focused on diversion. When symptoms appear start doing something physical that you really HATE doing like cleaning the house and keep doing it focusing intensely on the cleaning- whatever it is that you HATE doing. It refocuses the brain off the OCD. Good luck.

Morita's approach sounds like it might be useful for the behavioral aspects of disorders, but his approach of "accept your feelings" is just incorrect (for people with serious psychiatric disorders). In some cases what he is advising is not possible.