Can a funnel or cone shape increase the power output of a windmill?

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In summary, the conversation discusses the possibility of improving the power output of a windmill by building a funnel or cone around it. The individual asking the question suggests that this could increase the surface area and therefore capture more energy from the wind. However, the other participants in the conversation suggest that this may not be the most effective solution, as increasing the diameter of the windmill itself may provide more benefit. Additionally, they mention that ancient cultures have used structures to funnel wind into their windmills, and suggest looking into shaped "shrouds" for more information. The conversation ends with the individual thanking everyone for their input and noting that their idea may not work as well as they had hoped.
  • #1
Blast12345
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[I have been searching for an answer to this puzzling question for the past two hours. (To no avail.) A few search results lead me hear, but nobody had raised the question that is in my mind]

Would building a funnel/cone improve the power output of a given windmill?

Let us say, for example, that we have a windmill with a 3 meter diameter. The windmill would only capture the energy from the wind within the area [approx. 7 square meters] of its rotation (give or take), correct?

So, if you were to build a cone (or a pyramidal funnel) with an area of 28 square meters, wouldn't the energy from the entire area (the 28 square meters) be exerted on the windmill?

(I understand the increase wouldn't be perfect, as there are many variables to consider.)

Also, does the change in angle (thus altering the length) have any effect on the efficiency of the process? (More efficient compression?)

I do apologize if my terminology (and general understanding of fluid dynamics) is not up to snuff. I am only in 12th grade physics - no college craziness :P
 
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  • #2
Yes, you will get more power but if you make one big enough to justify adding it you lose the ability to turn the wind turbine.

Many ancient cultures used vertical windmills mounted on the ground or hill with a built structure to funnel the wind into them. These areas also tend to have months of wind from the same direction also.

Just look up ancient wind turbines or wind mills and you will get all kinds of examples.
 
  • #3
Blast12345 said:
Let us say, for example, that we have a windmill with a 3 meter diameter. The windmill would only capture the energy from the wind within the area [approx. 7 square meters] of its rotation (give or take), correct?

So, if you were to build a cone (or a pyramidal funnel) with an area of 28 square meters, wouldn't the energy from the entire area (the 28 square meters) be exerted on the windmill?

You don't have to build a funnel much larger in area than the turbine. You just need the right shape to increase the pressure difference.

spiritOfAmsterdam.jpg


It acts similar to the fan shrouding below, but it's not quite the same thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gChp0Cy33eY
 
  • #4
@Fleebell: Why would I loose the ability to turn the turbine with a large cone?

@A.T.: Thanks for the suggestion :)
Do you happen to know how much more energy a shaped "shroud" will capture in comparison to the cone? [estimate?]

Also, the Dyson fan video is interesting (and I looked up some more information about them online), but what are you specifically suggesting? Are you referring to only its shape, or the way that it functions as well?
 
  • #5
Blast12345 said:
a windmill with a 3 meter diameter. ... So, if you were to build a cone with an area of 28 square meters.
What the large cone effectively does is bring most of the moving wind it captures to a stop, with some of the wind flowing through the turbine and some of the wind flowing around the outer edges of the cone. There's a slight increase in pressure due to ram effect (dynamic pressure) when stopping the wind, but it's not much at normal wind speeds.

I'm thinking that just increasing windmill diameter somewhat will have more benefit than using a large funnel (cone).
 
  • #6
rcgldr said:
I'm thinking that just increasing windmill diameter somewhat will have more benefit than using a large funnel (cone).

I know, but it just seems too easy :rolleyes:

Anyways, thanks for helping me with this idea. Shame it wouldn't work (as well) as I had hoped, however I am not terribly surprised.
 
  • #7
Blast12345 said:
@A.T.: Thanks for the suggestion :)
Do you happen to know how much more energy a shaped "shroud" will capture in comparison to the cone? [estimate?]
No, but you should be able to find data online.
Blast12345 said:
Also, the Dyson fan video is interesting (and I looked up some more information about them online), but what are you specifically suggesting? Are you referring to only its shape, or the way that it functions as well?
It has a similar shape, but the flow is generated differently of course. The shroud has the profile of a wing, and creates under-pressure on the inside, which sucks more air in.
 

1. How does a windmill with funnel/cone work?

A windmill with funnel/cone works by harnessing the power of the wind to turn its blades, which in turn rotate a shaft connected to a generator. The funnel or cone helps to direct the wind towards the blades, increasing their efficiency.

2. What is the purpose of the funnel/cone on a windmill?

The funnel or cone on a windmill serves to increase the amount of wind that reaches the blades. This helps to improve the overall efficiency of the windmill and generate more electricity.

3. How much electricity can a windmill with funnel/cone generate?

The amount of electricity that a windmill with funnel/cone can generate depends on several factors, including the size and design of the windmill, the wind speed and direction, and the efficiency of the generator. On average, a windmill with funnel/cone can generate enough electricity to power several homes.

4. What are the advantages of using a windmill with funnel/cone?

There are several advantages to using a windmill with funnel/cone to generate electricity. It is a renewable source of energy, meaning it does not deplete natural resources. It also produces zero emissions, making it environmentally friendly. Additionally, wind energy is typically cheaper than other forms of energy, such as fossil fuels.

5. Are there any disadvantages to using a windmill with funnel/cone?

While there are many benefits to using a windmill with funnel/cone, there are also some disadvantages. Wind energy is variable and unreliable, as it relies on the availability of wind. This can make it difficult to use as a sole source of energy. Additionally, wind turbines can be noisy and may have an impact on wildlife in the area.

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