Enhancing the PF Posting Frame with Additional Useful Symbols?

[Studiot]

Useful symbols.

Another technical teaching site http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/ has a very useful collection of symbols directly available in their forum posting frame - some common greek letters and maths symbols.

How about PF adopting this - there is a blank space to the right of the Tex icon.

They do not have the sup and sub function though which is great here.

 

[dlgoff]

When I need a Greek letter or symbol I use the ones in my signature or Windows Character Map.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

done and done

 

[I like Serena]

done and done

Nice and quick!


It so happens that Redbelly98 researched which symbols are useful, viewable by everybody and in sorted order:
https://www.physicsforums.com/blog.php?b=347


For quick reference:

α β γ δ ε ζ η θ ι κ λ μ ν ξ ο π ρ ς σ τ υ φ χ ψ ω
Γ Δ Θ Λ Ξ Π Σ Φ Ψ Ω
∂ ∫ ∏ ∑
← → ↓ ↑ ↔
± − · × ÷ √
¼ ½ ¾ ⅛ ⅜ ⅝ ⅞
∞ ° ² ³ ⁿ Å
~ ≈ ≠ ≡ ≤ ≥ « »
† ‼



Is it possible to put these as quick symbols?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Nice and quick!


It so happens that Redbelly98 researched which symbols are useful, viewable by everybody and in sorted order:
https://www.physicsforums.com/blog.php?b=347

Which ones are used often that I don't have. I've never seen anyone use the fraction ones.

 

[Studiot]

Hey, Greg, That's great.

Can you please now have a word with my bank manager and show him how to effect money transfers into my account as quickly?

 

[I like Serena]

Which ones are used often that I don't have. I've never seen anyone use the fraction ones.

Ω σ μ ε τ ω
κ α β γ δ η
θ λ π ρ ζ χ
ψ ∞ ° √ Δ ∂
∫ Ʃ ∏ ± ≈ ≠

Symbols that I miss in particular are:
φ Γ Θ Λ Φ Ψ · × ≡ ≤ ≥

I have used all of these in some post of mine.

I'd also really like for the greek symbols to be in alphabetical order.
And the small greek letters might as well be complete.

 

[SammyS]

done and done

Very Nice and Useful. THANKS !

 

[Fredrik]

I just noticed the quick symbols box, and thought it was a very nice addition. I came here to suggest that we add at least one more line to it. I consider all of the following symbols more useful than any of the ones that are on that list now:

· × ≤ ≥ → ℝ ℂ

The following are less important, but still about as useful as the greek letters:

ℚ ℤ ℕ ∅ ∈ ⊂ ²

By the way, http://tlt.its.psu.edu/suggestions/international/bylanguage/mathchart.html has all the Greek symbols. You can probably find a lot more if you click around on that site a bit.

 

[mishrashubham]

3 hours! I am amazed how quickly changes are made in this forum. Another thank you to Greg.

 

[Redbelly98]

I noticed this feature yesterday, thanks Greg for adding it. I have a few suggestions...

1. If I want two or more symbols to appear together (for example ±√ or →∞), I can't just click on the two symbols. The second symbol replaces the first, unless I click back in the text box in between. Is is possible to have the second symbol click not replace the first one?

2. Personally, I use · ≤ ≥ and → fairly often and would like to see those added to the list. Though Greg might not want the size of this list to grow too much bigger.

3. I'd like to suggest a different ordering/grouping of the symbols. Perhaps along these lines, more or less:

Lowercase Greek
Uppercase Greek
° ± √ → ∞
· ≤ ≥ ≠ ≈
∂ ∫
​

Mainly, I'd like to group the Greek letters together, and to keep the characters in (≤ ≥ ≠ ≈) as well as (± √) and (→ ∞) together too. Not too concerned where ° and · are.

4. I don't know if we really need the ∂ symbol. It always appears as part of a fraction, for which LaTeX works much better, i.e. $\frac{\partial f}{\partial x}$ vs. ∂f/∂x

Thanks again to Greg for adding this feature!

 

[DaveC426913]

What are you guys talking about? I don't see any new feature.

Am I looking in the wrong place? I'm looking in the advanced message editor.

 

[Redbelly98]

You have to be in a forum where the LaTeX icon shows as well. So any technical forum, but not Forum Feedback.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Thanks for the feedback. I can make the changes on Monday.

 

[Fredrik]

I've never seen anyone use the fraction ones.

I don't think those are useful. Maybe the one for 1/2, but I would only include it if the last line is incomplete once you have included all the important symbols. I also don't see a reason to include the symbols « » † ‼. The last two are only used in chess, right? (Meaning "check" and "very good move"). I don't know what the first two are used for. Rewind and fast forward?

 

[tiny-tim]

3 hours! I am amazed how quickly changes are made in this forum.

hmm … i did first suggest it over three years ago …

… It's a nuisance to have to type sqrt and pi, in particular, and even more of a nuisance to have to read them!

Or to have to go into LaTeX where a Mac can type ∫.

… could they be incorporated into the standard Reply page so that people can simply copy-and-paste them?
They wouldn't need buttons, they could just be ordinary type.​

… It needn't look messy … it could go in the Additional Options section, or it could be part of a decorative border.
…
And … does anyone have a browser that won't display ß ∂ ∆ µ π ∏ ∑ Ω … √ ∫ ≤ ≥ ≠ ± # ?

Which ones are used often that I don't have. I've never seen anyone use the fraction ones.

i use "½"

i think most members say "half m v squared", and so prefer to write "1/2 mv²" rather than "mv²/2"

"½mv²" would be better (also "½Iω²" and "s = ut + ½at²")

… I also don't see a reason to include the symbols « » † ‼ …

seconded

but could we please have "…" (for use in sequences), and "#" (not on uk non-mac keyboards)?

Personally, I use · ≤ ≥ and → fairly often and would like to see those added to the list.

≤ and ≥ are needed a lot

4. I don't know if we really need the ∂ symbol. It always appears as part of a fraction, for which LaTeX works much better, i.e. $\frac{\partial f}{\partial x}$ vs. ∂f/∂x

i think most members type "dy/dx" rather than go to the bother of "$dy/dx$" …

so why should it be any different with ∂f/∂x ?

but it's a great new feature

now i can ditch my current signature, and replace it with important goldfishy information! ​

preserve the bowliverse! ​

 

[Redbelly98]

I don't think those are useful. Maybe the one for 1/2, but I would only include it if the last line is incomplete once you have included all the important symbols.

I agree, fractions are not needed.

I also don't see a reason to include the symbols « » † ‼. The last two are only used in chess, right? (Meaning "check" and "very good move"). I don't know what the first two are used for. Rewind and fast forward?

I wouldn't include them on grounds they are not used very often. Not sure if you're joking here, since they do all come up in physics and math. It's easy enough to just type symbols twice for <<, >>, and !.

 

[Fredrik]

I was not joking. Hm, let's try again... ! is the semi-factorial function. I completely forgot about that, and I haven't had a reason to use it since the 90's. << Can mean "much less than". Didn't realize that either when I wrote the post. (The fact that the symbol is so small could have something to do with it). The stuff I'm interested in almost never requires me to plug numbers into equations, so I haven't used that since the 90's either. And LOL, the "dagger" symbol for the adjoint, is used all the time in QM. I must have been really confused when I wrote that post. When I was searching my brain for uses for that symbol, it didn't even occur to me to look for situations where that symbol is used as an exponent. I just didn't see a use for expressions like $A\dagger$ or $A\dagger B$ and ended the brain search there. A partial explanation is that the past two years or so, I've been using the mathematicians' notation $A^*$ instead of $A^\dagger$, but it was still a pretty major brain fart. This is really weird. I'm not that old.

Hm, maybe we should include the † then. It's not as important as · × ≤ ≥ → ℝ ℂ, but I can see how a lot of people would find it useful. I'm guessing that there's no easy way to do this, but if there is, I think a click on that symbol should cause [noparse]^†[/noparse] to be typed, because it's only used exponentiated. At least that's the way it seems to me, but maybe my brain is still malfunctioning.

Regarding the ∂ symbol, it can be used for the boundary ∂E of a set E in a topological space, and in differential geometry (especially in the context of relativity) the μth partial derivative operator is often written as ∂_μ. As tiny-tim said, people might prefer to write ∂y/∂x rather than [noparse]$\frac{\partial y}{\partial x}$[/noparse]. So I think it should be included, if it doesn't push out something more important. I have never used it myself, but I can see how people might want to use it.

 

[Fredrik]

· × didn't make it. But thanks for adding the other ones I suggested.

 

[tiny-tim]

1. If I want two or more symbols to appear together (for example ±√ or →∞), I can't just click on the two symbols. The second symbol replaces the first, unless I click back in the text box in between. Is is possible to have the second symbol click not replace the first one?

seconded

at present, the symbol is inserted and highlighted, it would be easier if it was inserted and then the cursor was placed after it

 

[Fredrik]

I'm thirding that suggestion. It's not too hard to work around the problem. Just hit the right arrow key after clicking a symbol. But if it's easy to change, then I think we should.

 

[vela]

I noticed the posting area tends to run over on the righthand side with the typical browser window size I use in both Safari and Firefox, while there's an awful lot of wasted space on the left. Perhaps the posting area could be centered within the column rather than having a fixed left margin.

One other suggestion would be to use a different font for the Greek letters. With the current font, alpha looks like a lowercase A and pi looks like a lowercase N, which has caused confusion in the past.

 

[Fredrik]

Greg, do you think you can add × to the list? I use that symbol more than any of the ones that are on that list now. It's used for Cartesian products and in phrases like "m×n matrix". The symbol · would be very useful too. If you don't want to add another line of characters, then just remove one or two of the lesser Greek letters.

I wouldn't use α or χ, because they don't look enough like $\alpha$ and $\chi$, and I always LaTeX the symbols ∂ ∫ Ʃ ∏, so I don't find them useful either. I don't know if other people do.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Greg, do you think you can add × to the list?

I don't offhand see it as an HTML entity. That isn't chi?

 

[I like Serena]

Here's a couple of symbols that are missing with their html equivalents:

φ: &phi;
×: &times;
·: &centerdot;
∈: &in;

And, if only to please Mike: ;)
ξ: &xi;

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

&times; has been added to the list

 

[Fredrik]

Cool, thanks.

 

[tiny-tim]

… I always LaTeX the symbols ∂ ∫ Ʃ ∏, so I don't find them useful either. I don't know if other people do.

i use ∂ ∫ and ∑ a lot (though i can type them on my mac keyboard, so i don't use the box)

can we please have φ (the box's ∅ looks terrible in equations ), and ∫, and ∇ ?

 

[Fredrik]

i use ∂ ∫ and ∑ a lot (though i can type them on my mac keyboard, so i don't use the box)

can we please have φ (the box's ∅ looks terrible in equations ), and ∫, and ∇ ?

∅ is the empty set.

I agree that φ would be useful (occasionally).
I think I use each of these four symbols more than all the the others combined:

≤ → ℝ ×

These ones are all pretty useful too (the · is not currently on the list)

≥ ℂ ∞ ≈ ≠ ε δ ψ · ∅

I also use these occasionally:

β γ ρ θ λ (I would mention φ here, if it had been on the list).

I don't think I ever use any of the others.

Hm...is there an $\hbar$?

 

[NascentOxygen]

➊ ϕ
➋ ħ ћ ℏ
➌ Ɣ

 

[Fredrik]

tiny-tim, the "Learning LaTeX" link in your signature could use an update.

 

[tiny-tim]

tiny-tim, the "Learning LaTeX" link in your signature could use an update.

looks ok to me …

and the https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=386951 sticky ​

actually, with the new box, i hardly ever use my signature

btw, is the box invisible on some devices (eg phones)?​

 

[Fredrik]

looks ok to me …

You're linking to the old sticky (which is no longer a sticky), but at least it contains a link to the new one. I just thought that you might want to link directly to the new one, but you can of course link to whatever you want to.

 

[tiny-tim]

… at least it contains a link to the new one.

two links are still a link!

 

[tiny-tim]

∅ is the empty set.

I agree that φ would be useful (occasionally).

here's a typical thread where ∅ looks horrible …

Homework Statement

Prove that:
tan^2∅/tan∅ - 1 + cot^2∅/cot∅ - 1 = 1 + sec∅cosec∅

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution

I have solved the question taking tan∅ = sin∅/cos∅.
But I want to solve it some other way.

(i've taken to typing ψ instead of ∅ )

can we please have φ ? ​