Kindle and other e-book readers

[Evo]

I'm not getting it. Why aren't they giving these things away for free to entice people to buy the books you can download?

Or give a substantial discount if you pay for one of these readers? Like the e-book should cost 10% of the paper price, or less, realistically, right? No cost to produce, no warehousing, no shipping. It just seems like a rip-off to me.

Is there something I've missed on the price of the books? Are they a fraction of the cost of the real thing? Looks to me that you get a 20% discount? And you had to pay for the reader?

If people refuse to be ripped off like this, prices will come down to where they should be. I'm not willing to be ripped off. I can trade and resell books. Besides I prefer to hold and read a real book.

They have ridiculous ads aimed at the brain dead "but i can download 35,000 books on my kindle! Yeah, at $10-$20 each? And you're going to be able to read these after you die?

Realistically, most popular books should be priced at $1-$2 a download to give a profit to the publisher equal to the paper price.

 

[micromass]

The crucial point is:

If people refuse to be ripped off like this, prices will come down to where they should be.

Most people don't mind being ripped off apparently.

And I agree, a real book beats an electronic book everytime.

 

[Evo]

The crucial point is:



Most people don't mind being ripped off apparently.

And I agree, a real book beats an electronic book everytime.

Yeah, I don't get it, why are people willing to be ripped off like this? If they gave me a kindle for free and books cost $1-$2 a download, I'd do it, not always, but some of the time. I still want to read a "book", so I'd still pay $6-$7 dollars for a new paperback. Oh wait, that's the charge I'd pay to download it. :uhh:

Of course for really *large* cookbooks with a beautiful glossy photo of step by step preparations, I'd shuck out $10-$20 dollars, considering the same book on an e-reader the size of a paperback would cost me almost as much and not be as useful, I don't understand why people would do it.

This commercial is telling some girl that she can carry 35,000 books in her purse as a justification of the extra expense. Really? Is that something anyone ever needs to do?

 

[Newai]

There is little to no profit, and some may be sold at a loss. The same thing is usually done with video game consoles. I imagine many sleepless nights where the execs try to forecast the sales of books to each ereader.

The real rip off is Apple. Forbes says, "A $500 iPad, says iSuppli, costs Apple just $259.60 to make." - http://www.forbes.com/2010/06/24/kindle-amazon-nook-technology-ereader.html

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Books? I still have several shelves full of books right next to my old slide rules and T-square.

I would imagine that it will take a bit of time for market forces to bring the price down. But there are some good deals out there. I noticed for example that one can download Einstein's Relativity from Amazon for 99 cents. The paperback is about $4.50.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0517029618/?tag=pfamazon01-20

What does an author typically make for each book sold?

Tsu bought a Kindle and was instantly hooked. She absolutely loves it! I do almost everything on my computer already and have no practical need for an ebook. I just got the free Kindle-for-PC software from Amazon and I was on my way.

I know many devout readers have a sentimental attachment to paper; much like the sentimental attachment that many people had to horses when cars came along.

 

[fss]

I held out for a long time on a Kindle, but got one after I realized that I don't read most books more than once. Those that are keepers I'll still buy the hard copy, but for the second-class citizens I don't really care if they eDisappear after I've read them.

 

[Andy]

Rather than an ebook reader i am tempted to get a small tablet computer and then just download the free kindle app. The ebooks though are stupidly expensive, surely they should be encouraging people to get ebooks rather than proper books so we can save a few trees.

 

[mege]

My wife is attached to her NOOK Color (and I use an eInk NOOK when travelling). The Color has many tablet-PC like features (even more so now that it can use the Android market legitimately). My sister lost her color and has been whining about it for a few weeks.

Aside from new releases, books are significantly cheaper for eReaders. Between my wife and I, for a weeks vacation, we'd pack 10-15 books. Now, we don't need an extra suitcase for books! Lastly, our local library supports eBooks. That's been very nice, but they still have a limited supply (and I don't have a problem paying a few $ for an ebook if the library is out).

There are still some books that I prefer to buy, but those are more impulse buys because I enjoy wandering around the bookstore too much :p

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I was thinking of just getting a tablet computer though they are still a bit expensive for just a knock about. I assume that their batteries don't last as long as well. But I could then use it to browse the web at the coffee house, play chess and maybe other board games, ect. It would seem to have a much greater value for something to have with you out and about than just something to read books on. I keep a bag of books in the trunk of my car.

 

[Evo]

If I still traveled a lot, I might get one for saving space and weight.

 

[rhody]

My wife is attached to her NOOK Color (and I use an eInk NOOK when travelling). The Color has many tablet-PC like features (even more so now that it can use the Android market legitimately). My sister lost her color and has been whining about it for a few weeks.

Aside from new releases, books are significantly cheaper for eReaders. Between my wife and I, for a weeks vacation, we'd pack 10-15 books. Now, we don't need an extra suitcase for books! Lastly, our local library supports eBooks. That's been very nice, but they still have a limited supply (and I don't have a problem paying a few $ for an ebook if the library is out).

There are still some books that I prefer to buy, but those are more impulse buys because I enjoy wandering around the bookstore too much :p

I got a color Nook for Christmas, then slowly discovered that almost every book I want to read was not available for it. Even with wifi, browser, etc... I couldn't justify it, so I got my money back, if I travel and want to read a throw a few books into my backpack.

I can't justify an iPad either, Apple makes it too restrictive to simply copy movies, etc... of your own to it. It can be done. with great effort and frustration (a few friends have done it). In the end it is not worth the trouble. I use an ancient iTouch (get the custom Bose headphones though, they are great) for music, pictures, and a small number of short video's mostly done by TED. That's about it. I am done here. Man, it is still hot and oppressive.

Rhody... :grumpy:

 

[rhody]

And I agree, a real book beats an electronic book everytime.

MM,

I love some of my old beat up dog eared redlined books, like the one on Brain Plasticity by Doidge, it has character. It has been read, re-read, and is your best friend, as weird as that sounds, not perfect, but you wouldn't want to be without him.

Rhody...

 

[DaveC426913]

...like the one on Brain Plasticity by Doidge...

That book is sitting on my coffee table 5 feet away as I type this... though its a loaner


My single favourite book in the world is http://www.amazon.com/dp/0465045669/?tag=pfamazon01-20.

And http://xkcd.com/917/" for that!

 

[I like Serena]

I have a few dog eared math and physics books a couple of feet away... but only because the information in it is not readily available on the internet yet!

 

[Evo]

That book is sitting on my coffee table 5 feet away as I type this... though its a loaner

Ok, you need to post that in the "flookey or spookey" thread.

 

[wuliheron]

I'm not getting it. Why aren't they giving these things away for free to entice people to buy the books you can download?

Or give a substantial discount if you pay for one of these readers? Like the e-book should cost 10% of the paper price, or less, realistically, right? No cost to produce, no warehousing, no shipping. It just seems like a rip-off to me.

Is there something I've missed on the price of the books? Are they a fraction of the cost of the real thing? Looks to me that you get a 20% discount? And you had to pay for the reader?

If people refuse to be ripped off like this, prices will come down to where they should be. I'm not willing to be ripped off. I can trade and resell books. Besides I prefer to hold and read a real book.

They have ridiculous ads aimed at the brain dead "but i can download 35,000 books on my kindle! Yeah, at $10-$20 each? And you're going to be able to read these after you die?

Realistically, most popular books should be priced at $1-$2 a download to give a profit to the publisher equal to the paper price.

The entire publishing industry is going through a similar transition as the music industry. Newspapers are going out of business, bookstores are going out of business, magazines are going out of business, and everyone is scrambling to reinvent themselves in the digital age. For less then the price of a new pair of glasses you can buy an e-reader and begin downloading thousands of books for free. Already entire libraries are being being converted to digital format and eventually even the most remote village in the world will have access to all the great libraries in the world for a pittance.

E-readers are just another stepping stone in the portable electronic revolution which is about to the sweep the world. Already India is about to begin manufacturing the first $50.oo tablet PCs and within five to ten years you can expect a cheap portable device that doubles as your cellphone, e-reader, internet, multimedia, and gaming device. Pretty much anything you can imagine a handheld device being capable of in glorious high definition and every snot nosed kid will be dragging one around with them everywhere they go.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

e-books are not ready for me. On the one hand, there's something I can do with a paper book that I can't do with an e-book. Namely, write notes in the margins that include math formulas and graphical images. On the other hand, there's something the e-book could do that a paper book cannot. Namely, hyperlink back to other pages. When there is a reference to equation (4.17), I shouldn't have to go searching for what page that's on. With a hyperlink I could be taken to that page. As I said, e-books could do that, but they don't. They don't do what they can't do and they don't do all that they can do. So the only books I could read on it would be novels.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The single feature that Tsu loves most about her Kindle - adjustable font size. She doesn't get headaches from reading anymore.

 

[Evo]

The single feature that Tsu loves most about her Kindle - adjustable font size. She doesn't get headaches from reading anymore.

Now that might be something I'll be needing.

I'm just irritated by the sudden barrage of kindle tv ads where they highlight attributes that no one can use, like being able to download 35,000 books. Sounds really impressive until you realize that you can't afford to buy that many books, or if you can, when are you going to read them?

 

[Newai]

About the only reasons I go electronic is because after reading a few books, I often want to go back to something, a phrase I recall but isn't in the index and might take a while to find. The search feature turns hours into seconds.

I also was afraid my shelves were so loaded that they were going to fall through the floor and kill someone. Over a thousand pounds now weigh... nothing. And I hated moving all those books with me to this apartment. Several trips back and forth in my car with all that weight. Now if I move again, it'll be so much easier and less stressful.

I'm going electronic with all of my books. I don't do tablets yet; my netbook does everything they do and more, and at a reasonable cost. Scanning takes a long time, and I do keep the covers as proof of purchase. Same with my CDs and DVDs. As long as I'm extra careful with redundant backups in two separate locations, data loss is minimized to a risk on par with a fire eating up my media.

 

[Evo]

Came across this while reading.

No Sharing Allowed

Amazon and book publishers' stupid attempts to curtail e-book lending.

As convenient as they are, I've long worried about the many ways in which e-book purveyors restrict readers' rights. You can't resell the books you purchase for the Amazon Kindle, and you can't read them on most other e-readers. We also don't really own e-books in the same way we own paperbacks—Amazon has gone as far as remotely deleting titles from users' devices.

continued...

http://www.slate.com/id/2289012/?wpisrc=obinsite

 

[Newai]

They took quite a whipping for deleting those books. But they did change their policy and promised to stop doing that. The Federal Trade Commission is also looking at their practices because they're actually treating their sales like rentals. It's early in this new market and things are still changing.

 

[Alfi]

Kobo - The other one?

Linked to another book store. One is with Amazon this one is with Chapters. I thought it would be a good birthday present.

 

[DaveC426913]

I'm just irritated by the sudden barrage of kindle tv ads where they highlight attributes that no one can use, like being able to download 35,000 books. Sounds really impressive until you realize that you can't afford to buy that many books, or if you can, when are you going to read them?

I think you don't give people enough credit.

They have a library of 35,000 books. That translates proportionally to a probability that they will have the narrow subset of books I'm interested in. If they only had 3,500 books then the chances they'll have books I'm interested in would be 1/10th that if they have 35,000.

I think people are clever enough to intuit what '35,000 books' means to them.

 

[joesmith]

Exactally my thought.
Well said.
a joe in Texas

 

[Evo]

I think you don't give people enough credit.

They have a library of 35,000 books. That translates proportionally to a probability that they will have the narrow subset of books I'm interested in. If they only had 3,500 books then the chances they'll have books I'm interested in would be 1/10th that if they have 35,000.

I think people are clever enough to intuit what '35,000 books' means to them.

Have you seen that commercial? The girl says my purse holds 2 books, a couple of newspapers and a magazine, and the guy says that his kindle holds 3,500 books, newspapers, etc... It has nothing to do with the number of books they have available, it is what they equate the storage capacity to be.

It's a stupid commercial.

The near instant delivery of books to your device and the fact that you can hold up to 3,500 books is a real selling point.

http://www.kindle-ready.com/category/kindle-3/

Sorry, telling me that it can hold 3,500 books is not a selling point because it's not a realistic requirement.

You give people too much credit.

 

[enigma]

I got my Kindle for Christmas this year. I absolutely love it.

The interface and ergonomics are extremely well thought out.

The e-ink it uses (basically it's a 21st century etch-a-sketch) is as easy on the eyes as a paperback.

It's lighter than a paperback. No more lugging around hardbacks on new releases.

It's easier to hold than a paperback. Try reading a paperback while lying on your side in bed. Try reading a paperback while feeding a baby at 3am. I need one hand to hold the kindle and the same hand changes a page at the touch of a button.

It has a built in dictionary. Very useful. Move the cursor to the word and the definition pops up on the top or bottom of the screen.

If you fall asleep reading one you don't lose your place when it falls from your hand.

I can make notes and bookmarks jump there instantly with a half dozen button pushes. My wife borrowed it to read "A Game of Thrones" in advance of the TV show coming out. We used bookmarks to hold both of our places without having to worry about losing our places. She asked for her own Kindle for her birthday.

You can link several Kindles together to the same Amazon account and they all can share the same library.

The thing sips battery. I've had mine for 7 months, read maybe 5 or 6 hours a week, and I've had to charge it a half dozen times.

Buying a book is as simple as typing in the name. No need to go to the store, search for it, get pissed if they're out. Just like Amazon, they also have reviews available.

I have read that they're working out the logistics for 'loaning' a book to a friend, but honestly, that's not that big a deal for me. I have loaned books in the past, but not often. The vast majority are sitting on my shelves collecting dust.

Consider me sold. I may never buy another physical book.

 

[Evo]

I got my Kindle for Christmas this year. I absolutely love it.

The interface and ergonomics are extremely well thought out.

The e-ink it uses (basically it's a 21st century etch-a-sketch) is as easy on the eyes as a paperback.

It's lighter than a paperback. No more lugging around hardbacks on new releases.

It's easier to hold than a paperback. Try reading a paperback while lying on your side in bed. Try reading a paperback while feeding a baby at 3am. I need one hand to hold the kindle and the same hand changes a page at the touch of a button.

It has a built in dictionary. Very useful. Move the cursor to the word and the definition pops up on the top or bottom of the screen.

If you fall asleep reading one you don't lose your place when it falls from your hand.

I can make notes and bookmarks jump there instantly with a half dozen button pushes. My wife borrowed it to read "A Game of Thrones" in advance of the TV show coming out. We used bookmarks to hold both of our places without having to worry about losing our places. She asked for her own Kindle for her birthday.

You can link several Kindles together to the same Amazon account and they all can share the same library.

The thing sips battery. I've had mine for 7 months, read maybe 5 or 6 hours a week, and I've had to charge it a half dozen times.

Buying a book is as simple as typing in the name. No need to go to the store, search for it, get pissed if they're out. Just like Amazon, they also have reviews available.

I have read that they're working out the logistics for 'loaning' a book to a friend, but honestly, that's not that big a deal for me. I have loaned books in the past, but not often. The vast majority are sitting on my shelves collecting dust.

Consider me sold. I may never buy another physical book.

Now see, you point out practical features and benefits. They should fire their advertising company.

I still don't want one, but that's the kind of information people need.

 

[Newai]

Some ereaders also have audio, reading the books to people with vision problems.

The Kindle at Amazon.com can download and read first chapters free (try before you buy), and has almost 2 million free pre-1923 titles.Now I might buy one. Though I'm leaning more toward the Nook Color.

 

[Evo]

These are the types of book I buy, and I don't know how I could get the same experience from a kindle. The razor is for size comparison.

[PLAIN]http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg839/scaled.php?server=839&filename=005es.jpg&res=medium

[PLAIN]http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg12/scaled.php?server=12&filename=004xlg.jpg&res=medium

 

[rootX]

I am bit old school and love having book in my hand ... kindle can never replace a real book for me. Kindle also devalues the book, I noticed I value things less when they are easy to access and large in quantity.

I love books like the evo posted above!

 

[DaveC426913]

Have you seen that commercial? The girl says my purse holds 2 books, a couple of newspapers and a magazine, and the guy says that his kindle holds 3,500 books, newspapers, etc... It has nothing to do with the number of books they have available, it is what they equate the storage capacity to be.

It's a stupid commercial.

OK. Conceded.

 

[fss]

Have you seen that commercial? The girl says my purse holds 2 books, a couple of newspapers and a magazine, and the guy says that his kindle holds 3,500 books, newspapers, etc... It has nothing to do with the number of books they have available, it is what they equate the storage capacity to be.

It's a stupid commercial.

Sorry, telling me that it can hold 3,500 books is not a selling point because it's not a realistic requirement.

You give people too much credit.

For comparison, what commercial would you say presents only the facts about a particular product with no sugar coating or no out-of-context message?

It's widely acknowledged that eBooks aren't for everyone. I don't see why you feel the need to justify your opposition to it based on advertising. Have you ever actually used one?

 

[MATLABdude]

I love my Kobo (the second generation one with the WiFi), though now that there's a new touch Kobo (third generation), the sheen has gone off of mine a little.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobo_eReader

It's great for recreational reading, but I don't think I'd ever trade my physical text / reference books in.

 

[Evo]

For comparison, what commercial would you say presents only the facts about a particular product with no sugar coating or no out-of-context message?

It's widely acknowledged that eBooks aren't for everyone. I don't see why you feel the need to justify your opposition to it based on advertising. Have you ever actually used one?

I was watching tv shows online and this commercial was repeated every 10 minutes, for 3 hours. Sometimes it would air two times in a row before the show resumed. It got really annoying after the first hour. :tongue: I kept thinking, this tells me absolutely nothing useful about this product, and after watching it so many times, it got so annoying that it actually turned me off to the product.