Ghost in a Machine? Can it Exist?

[wolram]

Can there be such a thing ? at work there is a machine that constantly has
breakdowns that defy logical explanation, human intervention has been ruled
out as there are cameras in the room, and the only way the breakdowns could
be man made is by some with tools and access to the machine

 

[Mk]

I think its the wol-RAM.

 

[wolram]

I think its the wol-RAM.

Ahhhh, no it is a problem i do not need :grumpy:

 

[Danger]

Can there be such a thing ?

No.
So what kind of machine, and what's going wrong? If things are loosening up, it's probably vibration-related. Likewise if settings are drifting.

 

[Math Is Hard]

There is a vending machine on campus that loves me. It gives me extra packages of chips and cookies.

 

[Danger]

There is a vending machine on campus that loves me.

Don't be fooled! It's only using you to get at your ipod.

 

[wolram]

Don't be fooled! It's only using you to get at your ipod.

Grrrr, that is naughty, but no this infernal machine some how jumps 1.5 toothed
belts, that drive load free," other than a small amount of friction" comonents.

 

[motai]

Can there be such a thing ? at work there is a machine that constantly has
breakdowns that defy logical explanation, human intervention has been ruled
out as there are cameras in the room, and the only way the breakdowns could
be man made is by some with tools and access to the machine

It's called Windows :rofl:.

 

[wolram]

It's called Windows :rofl:.

One up to motai :rofl: however our company is windows free, unless you count
a laptop

 

[Danger]

So Wooley, are you referring to a 1 1/2 inch Gilmer drive? Does it have a tensioner? Also, unless the pulleys are rimmed, the slightest misalignment of the axles will cause the belt to 'walk off'. A worn bearing could be enough to do it.

 

[Ki Man]

i think I've seen this problem before

have ever heard of... http://cgi.ebay.com/Otherworldly-Haunted-Creepy-Share-Bear-Care-Bear_W0QQitemZ5623779201QQcategoryZ1469QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"?

 

[Math Is Hard]

oooh...Hypatia! I know how you can get rid of that demon-possessed Halloween novelty in your garage! And make a few bucks, maybe!

 

[wolram]

So Wooley, are you referring to a 1 1/2 inch Gilmer drive? Does it have a tensioner? Also, unless the pulleys are rimmed, the slightest misalignment of the axles will cause the belt to 'walk off'. A worn bearing could be enough to do it.

The same style as this only bigger.
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Free_UK_Delivery/Timing_Pulleys_and_Belts_46676_v2.htm

And the guys who trade these drive systems and advise system design say no way can this happen.

 

[Lisa!]

Seriously Sir, I think there's something wrong with the place your working there and you need to find a new job.:uhh: Although I'm still thinking of the other possibility!

 

[wolram]

Seriously Sir, I think there's something wrong with the place your working there and you need to find a new job.:uhh: Although I'm still thinking of the other possibility!

I would change jobs in a second, if i could find one better, but they keep paying
me more

 

[Lisa!]

:grumpy: :grumpy: Do you think money is more important than your health? I'm sure those ghosts don't like you and they may want to kill you.
And I guess your employer is with them or perhaps he's a ghost himself.
Anyway it's others(:tongue2:) who should be worried about you not me.

 

[wolram]

:grumpy: :grumpy: Do you think money is more important than your health? I'm sure those ghosts don't like you and they may want to kill you.
And I guess your employer is with them or perhaps he's a ghost himself.
Anyway it's others(:tongue2:) who should be worried about you not me.

I think you are looking for a job, what skills do you have ? i may be able to help

 

[Danger]

And the guys who trade these drive systems and advise system design say no way can this happen.

Okay, that's what I was thinking of. The flanges (what I called rims before) should prevent the belt from coming off. If by 'jumping' you just mean 'slipping', it shouldn't be possible unless it's way too loose. Once again I ask if there's a tensioner on it. If not, add one (or maybe even one on each side of the pulley) and see if it helps.

 

[wolram]

Okay, that's what I was thinking of. The flanges (what I called rims before) should prevent the belt from coming off. If by 'jumping' you just mean 'slipping', it shouldn't be possible unless it's way too loose. Once again I ask if there's a tensioner on it. If not, add one (or maybe even one on each side of the pulley) and see if it helps.

Sorry, yes there is a tensioner, one pully is driven via a 30mm shaft which
connects to an 90 degree angle gear box 1:1 ratio, which in turn drives a
simple rocking mechanism that picks a sleeve from a magazine and places
it over a product, the sleeve is folded around the product down stream.
both pullies have 8mm keys or maybe one is 6mm so they can not move on the
shaft. we locked the mechanism up with a .5inch socket extension bar, the
belt did not jump the main drive clutch operated first.

 

[Danger]

Sorry, but you're going to have to explain the last part of that in a lot more detail. Partly because I don't know where/what the clutch is, and partly because you sometimes use different terminology than I do, I can't follow what you mean. "locked the mechanism up"? And by "socket extension bar" do you mean one that goes between the ratchet and the socket for more reach, or a snipe for more torque?

 

[wolram]

Sorry, but you're going to have to explain the last part of that in a lot more detail. Partly because I don't know where/what the clutch is, and partly because you sometimes use different terminology than I do, I can't follow what you mean. "locked the mechanism up"? And by "socket extension bar" do you mean one that goes between the ratchet and the socket for more reach, or a snipe for more torque?

The motor that drives the machine is fitted with a clutch, the output from the
cluch is linked via .5inch duplex chain to the machine main drive shaft, on the
other end of the main drive shaft is a 90 degee gear box this gear box drives
a shaft that runs the length of the machine, this shaft drives various parts of the machine, including the one that is causing the trouble, a toothed pully
and belt drive a second angle gear box that drives the sleeve pick and place
mechanism.
i mean a bar that goes between ratchet and socket for more reach.

So it is motor clutch fitted at bottom right hand corner of machine, drives a
shaft above it that runs the width of the machine, then through a 90 degree
gear box to a shaft that runs the length of machine, then a toothed pully
belt takes drive to 90 degree gear box that is approx three feet above.

 

[Danger]

Okay, I've got the lay of the land now. I still don't know what you meant by 'locking the mechanism', though, unless it was to deliberately jam the sleeve-picker thing to try forcing a skip. So it didn't jump, but the clutch slipped instead? Have you thoroughly inspected both pulleys and the belt? There could be a cumulative effect at work. Say you've got a partially worn spot on a pulley that isn't in itself bad enough to bother with. If there were a similar spot on the belt, maybe it would just skip when the two bad parts coincide. Have you tried replacing the belt?
PS: Maybe you should throw a link to this into the Engineering section.

 

[wolram]

Thanks Dager, The thing is to stupid for engineering, the belt has been changed
twice and the pullies are as new.
and yes we deliberatly put the bar into stop the sleeve arm moving and the
belt did not jump the main clutch disengaged.
One of the guys that has looked at the problem advises companies on drive
train and power trasmision, he tells us this drive is if any thing over engineered.

We have had a camera looking at this machine now for over a week and it has
not picked up any human intervention.
The next thing we want to do is get a high speed camera to look at just the
problem area, that will not be easy or cheap.

 

[Danger]

Now you've got me completely intrigued. Man, but I wish I could get my mitts on that thing in person.:grumpy:
As for the high-speed photography, I wonder if a stroboscopic examination first might eliminate the need for it. Just thought of something else too. Could you mount a contact sensor (microswitch, strain gauge, etc.) just outside of the belt's turn radius around the pulley? That could detect the beginning of a jump and trigger your surveillance equipment.

 

[wolram]

Now you've got me completely intrigued. Man, but I wish I could get my mitts on that thing in person.:grumpy:
As for the high-speed photography, I wonder if a stroboscopic examination first might eliminate the need for it. Just thought of something else too. Could you mount a contact sensor (microswitch, strain gauge, etc.) just outside of the belt's turn radius around the pulley? That could detect the beginning of a jump and trigger your surveillance equipment.

That idea may save £s, thanks danger.

Hey i wish you could have the b******* thing i have never in my 25yrs
of this industry come across some thing so illogical, i was intigued at first
now i am totaly lost, i have spent approx ten hours on and off watching the thing and it never jumped, if only i could see what happens :grumpy:

 

[Danger]

I feel your pain.:rofl:

I'll keep thinking on it and see if anything pops up.