Was Edgar Cayce a Genuine Psychic or a Crackpot?

[NeedBioInfo]

Could somebody give me information on whether or not Edgar Cayce was, for example, a complete fake? Thanks

 

[Ivan Seeking]

bump

Moved from Mind and Brain Sciences

 

[Kerrie]

I think at this point, the answer to that question is more of a matter of opinion. Edgarcayce.org and the Association for Research and Enlightment of Virginia Beach VA are devoted to the research and documentation of his pyschic episodes. For "pyschic abilities" to ever be validated or unvalidated, this is certainly a step in the right direction. I wonder if Edgar Cayce had lived in modern times if his abilities would have been as accepted as they were decades ago. In my personal opinion, if there is such a thing as pyschic ability that a majority of us don't utilize, then it's easy for those who do know how to use it to make a decent living at it.

 

[loseyourname]

Well, the guy remote diagnosed and prescribed treatments for hundreds of people at least. There has to be some record of how successful he was at this; whether or not the patients were cured.

 

[hypatia]

He made a record of everything, and its kept in a hugh library, and is open for anyone to study.
To some he is the father of of modern holistic medicine, and most of his cures involved good food and a healthy lifestyle.

 

[SGT]

Googling will provide you thousands of believer´s references. If you want a skeptical opinion, read The Skeptic Dictionary

 

[Kerrie]

Googling will provide you thousands of believer´s references. If you want a skeptical opinion, read The Skeptic Dictionary

That's a great site if you are unable to provide an opinion for yourself.

 

[SGT]

That's a great site if you are unable to provide an opinion for yourself.

Would you care to provide your valuable believer opinion?

 

[Evo]

Ok, let's not get personal.

 

[Kerrie]

Would you care to provide your valuable believer opinion?

Already did, here it is again:

In my personal opinion, if there is such a thing as pyschic ability that a majority of us don't utilize, then it's easy for those who do know how to use it to make a decent living at it

 

[SGT]

Already did, here it is again:

I want your opinion about Cayce. Was he the real thing, a deluded honest person or a fake?
He did a recent life with his alleged powers, but so do several fakes.

 

[Kerrie]

I want your opinion about Cayce. Was he the real thing, a deluded honest person or a fake?
He did a recent life with his alleged powers, but so do several fakes.

A truly informed opinion of Edgar Cayce would mean having some time studying his documented healings and knowing for sure his medical background. As I stated before, his readings were all documented which is a step in the right direction in investigating that which cannot be proven or disproven. From what I know, I am a bit skeptical, however, not absolutely so since I don't have a fully informed opinion of his background and readings exclusively. What he did was amazing and isn't standard medical healing. We cannot be so absolute in our skeptical viewpoints to rule out knowledge and abilities that are not able to be proven/disproven by our current scientific methods. Science is the pathway to help us understand ourselves and our world, absolute skeptiscm will halt this path.

 

[PIT2]

Wise words have been spoken.

 

[SGT]

A truly informed opinion of Edgar Cayce would mean having some time studying his documented healings and knowing for sure his medical background. As I stated before, his readings were all documented which is a step in the right direction in investigating that which cannot be proven or disproven. From what I know, I am a bit skeptical, however, not absolutely so since I don't have a fully informed opinion of his background and readings exclusively. What he did was amazing and isn't standard medical healing. We cannot be so absolute in our skeptical viewpoints to rule out knowledge and abilities that are not able to be proven/disproven by our current scientific methods. Science is the pathway to help us understand ourselves and our world, absolute skeptiscm will halt this path.

What do you mean by documented healings? There are only anecdotes. That is not the way medical research is made. To document therapies you need a good diagnosis to begin with. Who diagnosed the illnesses treated by Cayce?
Was there any control group, to confirm that the improvement of health was due to the therapy and not to expontaneous remission?
I will not even ask for double blind studies, that are difficult perform and are not allways possible.

 

[Kerrie]

What do you mean by documented healings? There are only anecdotes. That is not the way medical research is made. To document therapies you need a good diagnosis to begin with. Who diagnosed the illnesses treated by Cayce?
Was there any control group, to confirm that the improvement of health was due to the therapy and not to expontaneous remission?
I will not even ask for double blind studies, that are difficult perform and are not allways possible.

Before this gets heated, you may want to read up on Edgar Cayce.

 

[Aether]

A truly informed opinion of Edgar Cayce would mean having some time studying his documented healings and knowing for sure his medical background...From what I know, I am a bit skeptical, however, not absolutely so since I don't have a fully informed opinion of his background and readings exclusively.

Hello Kerrie, As I understand it from conversations with a true fan of Edgar Cayce, E.C. claimed to have been unconscious during all of his readings, and to have no waking memory/understanding whatsoever of what he himself was saying during the readings. He also claimed to have read the King James Bible from cover to cover approximately fourty times during his lifetime, and AFAIK all of his readings were delivered in that same style of English from the year 1611.

We cannot be so absolute in our skeptical viewpoints to rule out knowledge and abilities that are not able to be proven/disproven by our current scientific methods.

Cayce was once asked by someone during a reading if he could please speak more plainly so that it would be easier to understand what he was saying and Cayce said "listen better!".

Now, doesn't this all sound so very convincing coming from an unconscious white guy in Va. Beach who delivers prophesy (as channeled from a 1st century middle-eastern Bible character, Jesus I think) spoken in 1611 King James English while denying all knowledge while he's awake, hmmm?

 

[Kerrie]

Now, doesn't this all sound so very convincing coming from an unconscious white guy in Va. Beach who delivers prophesy (as channeled from a 1st century middle-eastern Bible character, Jesus I think) spoken in 1611 King James English while denying all knowledge while he's awake, hmmm?

Sometimes it's really tough to convey a message in an internet discussion forum. I guess the message I am trying to communicate is coming out all wrong. In no way am I claiming to be a believer of Edgar Cayce, in a post above I explicitly state that I am skeptical but open to knowledge I am unaware of. So I am unsure why your message-and SGT's message is addressing me as if I am claiming to believe in Edgar Cayce's prophecies. Other members here have expressed more of a belief then I. Perhaps you can address them as well.

From what I know, I am a bit skeptical, however, not absolutely so since I don't have a fully informed opinion of his background and readings exclusively.

Here is my stand on this subject once again.

 

[Aether]

In no way am I claiming to be a believer of Edgar Cayce, in a post above I explicitly state that I am skeptical but open to knowledge I am unaware of. So I am unsure why your message-and SGT's message is addressing me as if I am claiming to believe in Edgar Cayce's prophecies.

You said that "knowing for sure his medical background" was important for forming a truly informed opinion of EC. My message isn't meant to imply anything at all about your beliefs, only to paint a clear and concise picture of what I know about EC's readings.

 

[Kerrie]

Interesting info here:

This changed in 1928 when the Edgar Cayce hospital was founded in Virginia Beach, and Cayce would to on to give approximately 7,000 more medical readings before his death in 1945. With a dedicated conductor to put Cayce into trance, a stenographer to supervise and record trance sessions, and a team of board-certified physicians to study, chart, and interpret a patient's progress over a long period of time, it was possible to begin seeing the scope of Cayce's contributions and to gain a better understanding of the general principles of health he communicated in the readings. As medical scholars would point out a generation later, together, Cayce's trance readings provided a primer on the emerging field of holistic medicine.

Although the information Cayce imparted was often in keeping with the practice of both homeopathic and allopathic medicine at the time, it became clear by the late 1920's that Cayce also drew information from the medical knowledge of ancient cultures, especially those in Egypt and Greece. And a fair percentage of Cayce's ideas were entirely new at the time the readings were given—sometimes given on the very same day the treatment or product was becoming available to the public. Some of Cayce's medical insights have since been confirmed by modern medical science, while others are yet to be validated.

The fact that many of the treatments Cayce recommended were in keeping with the standard medical approach to illness made it easier for doctors to follow his advice. As a general rule, these treatments varied only in the combination of medicine and therapies, but often involved more hard work on the part of both the doctor and patient than has become the norm in modern medicine. Invariably, however, the hard work paid off. In many instances, Cayce was clearly ahead of his time. For instance, he once recommended that an infant with digestive problems be kept on a strict diet of bananas which in the 1920's was generally considered to be poisonous to infants. Now, the all-banana diet is standard medical treatment for celiac children.

From http://www.edgarcaycebooks.com/HealthandHealing.htm"

 

[SGT]

...
Although the information Cayce imparted was often in keeping with the practice of both homeopathic and allopathic medicine at the time, it became clear by the late 1920's that Cayce also drew information from the medical knowledge of ancient cultures, especially those in Egypt and Greece.
...

This changes all. If Cayce got knowledge from ancient Egypt and Greece he must have been the real thing. I withdraw my skepticism.

 

[Evo]

Now, doesn't this all sound so very convincing coming from an unconscious white guy in Va. Beach who delivers prophesy (as channeled from a 1st century middle-eastern Bible character, Jesus I think) spoken in 1611 King James English while denying all knowledge while he's awake, hmmm?

I actually know quite a bit about Cayce from reading a great deal about him many years ago and this information is wrong, he didn't channel anyone and he spoke in his own voice, I've never read about him speaking in middle English. I think your friend was confusing the "religious" parts of some of his "readings" where he'd sound like a preacher. Cayce would go into a sleep like trance during which he would give his readings, which is where his nickname "The sleeping prophet" came from.

 

[Aether]

I actually know quite a bit about Cayce from reading a great deal about him many years ago and this information is wrong, he didn't channel anyone and he spoke in his own voice, I've never read about him speaking in middle English. I think your friend was confusing the "religious" parts of some of his "readings" where he'd sound like a preacher. Cayce would go into a sleep like trance during which he would give his readings, which is where his nickname "The sleeping prophet" came from.

OK. Everything that this person quoted (on another online forum) seemed to be in that style of English. Can you provide a link to a small representative sample of his actual readings?

 

[Evo]

OK. Everything that this person quoted (on another online forum) seemed to be in that style of English. Can you provide a link to a small representative sample of his actual readings?

You can find tons online. That person seems to have been only quoting Cayce's bible stuff.

I don't believe in Cayce, I just happened to read tons about him when I was 14 becuase my mother was interested in that stuff. I was the "debunker".

For example, here is one of his "medical" readings. "... from the head, pains along through the body from the second, fifth and sixth dorsals, and from the first and second lumbar...tie-ups here, floating lesions, or lateral lesions, in the muscular and nerve fibers which supply the lower end of the lung and the diaphragm...in conjunction with the sympathetic nerve of the solar plexus, coming in conjunction with the solar plexus at the end of the stomach..." This is from the Skepdic link.

"Thus we would administer those activities which would bring a normal reaction through these portions, stimulating them to an activity from the body itself, rather than the body becoming dependent upon supplies that are robbing portions of the system to produce activity in other portions, or the system receiving elements, or chemical reactions being supplied without arousing the activities of the system itself for a more normal condition. [1968-3]"

...make for the coordination between the elimination of the sympathetic system, the eliminations which control through the central nerve and blood supply of the organs themselves, that is, the lungs heart, liver and kidneys, as well as the superficial circulation; these as controlled by the nerves and muscular forces of the sensory or sympathetic system. (5331-1)"

These are from his foundation website where you can read as many as you want.

http://www.are-cayce.com/

As you can see, it is in plain contemporary English, as are the majority of his readings.

 

[Aether]

You can find tons online. That person seems to have been only quoting Cayce's bible stuff...As you can see, it is in plain contemporary English, as are the majority of his readings.

OK, what I said about "AFAIK all of his readings were delivered in that same style of English from the year 1611" was based on a non-representative sample of his readings. Some, not all, of his readings were delivered in that same style of English. Here's an example:

"For indeed in Him, the Father-God, ye move and have thy being. Act like it! Don't act like ye think ye are a god! Ye may become such, but when ye do ye think not of thyself. For what is the pattern? He thought it not robbery to make Himself equal with God, but He acted like it in the earth. He made Himself of no estate that you, through His grace, through His mercy, through His sacrifice might have an advocate with that First Cause, God; that first principle, spirit..." -- Reading 4083-1

he didn't channel anyone

Who is "the Source" then? "...In trance, however, when "the Source" spoke through the sleeping Cayce, he was the "psychic diagnostician,"..." -- http://www.edgarcaycebooks.com/HealthandHealing.htm

"His readings or inspirational words came while in a state of “sleep”, what we would term today as trance channeling." -- http://www.paganspath.com/meta/cayce.htm

 

[dlgoff]

I see that there is going to be a program (Decodeing the Past) about Edgar Cayce tonight on the History channel. About 30 min here in the midwest.

 

[Evo]

OK, what I said about "AFAIK all of his readings were delivered in that same style of English from the year 1611" was based on a non-representative sample of his readings. Some, not all, of his readings were delivered in that same style of English. Here's an example:
"For indeed in Him, the Father-God, ye move and have thy being. Act like it! Don't act like ye think ye are a god! Ye may become such, but when ye do ye think not of thyself. For what is the pattern? He thought it not robbery to make Himself equal with God, but He acted like it in the earth. He made Himself of no estate that you, through His grace, through His mercy, through His sacrifice might have an advocate with that First Cause, God; that first principle, spirit..." -- Reading 4083-1
Who is "the Source" then? "...In trance, however, when "the Source" spoke through the sleeping Cayce, he was the "psychic diagnostician,"..." -- http://www.edgarcaycebooks.com/HealthandHealing.htm
"His readings or inspirational words came while in a state of “sleep”, what we would term today as trance channeling." -- http://www.paganspath.com/meta/cayce.htm

IIRC he would astrally project and somehow have access to "information" while on the "other plane". It wasn't another entity speaking through him.

The quote you show above is what I was referring to about his biblical references sounding like a preacher giving a sermon.

dlgof - yep, I'm going to watch it. I read all of Cayce's early books, it seems the "new agers" are putting their own "new agey spin" on Cayce making it even less easy to swallow. I'm wondering if this gets back to his actual readings.

 

[Aether]

I see that there is going to be a program (Decodeing the Past) about Edgar Cayce tonight on the History channel. About 30 min here in the midwest.

Just in time, dlgoff! It's coming on in 5 minutes.

IIRC he would astrally project and somehow have access to "information" while on the "other plane". It wasn't another entity speaking through him.

OK, you are correct. Cayce's "Source" is purported to be the "Akashic Records" and not any individual person. Here's a quote from someone who seems to be a Cayce fan:

...Although I have long understood that all such sources (even the most credible ones) can, and often are, in error about many things, I have recently been discovering just how much in error they can be. The Edgar Cayce Source, for instance, which has been a very important force in my life, has been under siege, for some time now, by archeological discoveries concerning the Great Pyramid and Egyptian culture. The Cayce Source, which is a tireless advocate of Jesus, appears to be wildly incorrect about when, how, and by whom the pyramids were built. What makes this so disturbing is the fact that these same readings (the ones that seem to be wrong about the pyramids and Egyptian culture) also present a comprehensive world view with Jesus at the center. Is the information in these readings about Jesus as wrong as the information about ancient Egypt?

Similarly, Cayce's view of Jesus, and the Essenes, seems to be increasingly inconsistent with modern scholarship. To the consternation of those of us who hoped the Cayce readings would provide a reliable picture of Jesus, the Cayce Source seems, instead, to have drawn largely on traditional Biblical accounts (which, I remind you, is an increasingly suspect source). Did Cayce's devotion and familiarity with the Bible (in particular, the "Thee" and "Thou" King James Version) find its way into his readings? Undoubtedly they did, causing Cayce's own subconscious beliefs and perspectives to get tangled up with whatever accurate pictures of Jesus he was able to access. -- http://www.nhne.com/misc/utopian.html

 

[reena]

Edgar Caycee lived often in superconscious state and could see beyond time and space and in that trans state he became light and predict what is so called "future" in the preseant realm.
All his predictions have and are becoming true.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I would like to see a list of his predictions.

I know the discovery of the "road" at Bimini is thought to be one correct prediction, but since we don't know it to be connected to Atlantis, at best it is premature to call this a hit.

I believe that he correctly predicted the date of his own death...

 

[reena]

Edgar Caycee and Nostradamus has already predicted what we are into at the very moment where cataclysmic changes will bring about changes in human consciousness bringing about equanimity, oneness and fairness in creation. Man will realize that the real potential lies in soul consciousness and not in material consciousness which is a delusion of the mind leading one to physical and mental degradation and misery.

 

[Aether]

Edgar Caycee and Nostradamus has already predicted what we are into at the very moment where cataclysmic changes will bring about changes in human consciousness bringing about equanimity, oneness and fairness in creation. Man will realize that the real potential lies in soul consciousness and not in material consciousness which is a delusion of the mind leading one to physical and mental degradation and misery.

Hello reena, is there any scientific basis for the statements that you have made here, or is your belief in these statements based entirely on your own personal "feelings"?

 

[hypatia]

After reading several {Googled} pages of Cayee's predictions, you can see they are either so general, or time specific. Examples, there is going to be earthquakes on the west coast, and by 2,000 America will be in rune.
A few of his WW2 predictions came close to being right on the money, and few other grazed some possibility, but I'm left still very skeptical.

 

[reena]

JUst awit and see. The time specificity is difficult to judge as the time is not mentioned in accordance with the Roman calendar in Caycee predictions. What we see in the world today tells me that we are closing in.

 

[Aether]

A few of his WW2 predictions came close to being right on the money, and few other grazed some possibility...

I believe that he correctly predicted the date of his own death...

Any such predictions would need to have verifiable dates of origin before they could be taken seriously. Advance publication in any journal, newspaper, etc. would suffice. Nevertheless, he did record over 14,000 readings, and there are bound to be some random hits sprinkled throughout. A proper accounting would have to subtract points for all wrong guesses/predictions as well as add points for all right guesses/predictions.

 

[SGT]

Edgar Caycee and Nostradamus has already predicted what we are into at the very moment where cataclysmic changes will bring about changes in human consciousness bringing about equanimity, oneness and fairness in creation. Man will realize that the real potential lies in soul consciousness and not in material consciousness which is a delusion of the mind leading one to physical and mental degradation and misery.

Nostradamus has foreseen nothing. His verses are all constructed in a vague language that you can fit to anything. No Nostradamian student has been able to say what his predictions meant before the facts. After something happens, they search all the quatrains until they find some that can be distorted in order to fulfill the fact.
If Cayce's predictions are of the same order, I am not surprised that they are considered accurate by believers.