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Federal Reserve |
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| Nov20-05, 08:45 PM | #18 |
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Federal ReserveYou said the Fed isn't part of the Government, but showed no evidence. Again, it's like saying the State Department isn't part of the Government. You said that the Fed is controlled by lobbyists, but showed no evidence. Furthermore, please explain how it is "a crime" for bankers to lend out people's money? That is the entire principal of a bank. If you want to literally keep your exact money, you buy a safe. Putting it in a bank says that it's alright for the bank to lend it out, and that you get an interest rate on your deposited money. Yes, it's true that if everyone wanted all their money back they couldn't get it in cash, but this is true of any system of banks, publicly or privately owned. Simply because there isn't enough physical cash to cover all the money in the banking system, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's just all invested in many various things. |
| Nov20-05, 09:05 PM | #19 |
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You can't say that mortgage companies know that the money is real simply because they use it, after all, if they have numbers in their account, it must be real right? It comes down to the fact that money is simply what is accepted by people using it. When a bank doesn't have enough money in the safe to pay out all the accounts it holds, it doesn't have any money to lend. Yet it does lend money, and charges interest. Now change your thinking for the local bank you do business with to the Federal reserve. They are the last say in where money comes from, so in thier perspective, they physically don't have the money that they lend out with interest to the government. |
| Nov20-05, 09:18 PM | #20 |
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I had honestly thought this issue was burried after FDR dealt with the banking crisis... |
| Nov20-05, 09:25 PM | #21 |
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Recognitions:
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| Nov20-05, 09:37 PM | #22 |
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The fed is not a government institution, and I don't need to provide evidence because anyone who has researched this will know that it is privately owned, so this shows that you haven't researched as much as i have so far. I can't offer incriminating evidence that the Fed's directors are chosen by government officials for reasons that make both parties rich, but I can offer arguments. If I went and found a bunch of tidbits about how so and so took someone to lunch or to a meeting at a 5 star hotel in italy via a private jet or something, you might not regard that as evidence of so and so's ability to persuade the other person to vote for a specific person to the Fed's board of directors. At least I hope I've inspired you to research the fed, and come to a conclusion of wether or not you think it's good or bad. By the way, I did make the distinction between private and public central banks in my first post |
| Nov20-05, 09:38 PM | #23 |
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oh, so you're in a position to judge my understanding? What do you know about how it works? why do you adamently reject my arguments? |
| Nov20-05, 09:42 PM | #24 |
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| Nov20-05, 10:13 PM | #25 |
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ok, so you're saying tha fractional reserve banking is needed in order that banks throughout the nation can keep doing what they are doing? Yeah, thats a valid argument. I don't know what you mean when you mention that FDR did something to bury this issue. This is true, what you describe is how things are done in banks, and you describe that money is simply a measure of what people value. What I'm claiming is that the Federal reserve is not a good thing because it is privately owned (by money changers of course). |
| Nov20-05, 10:21 PM | #26 |
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| Nov20-05, 10:37 PM | #27 |
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Johnny, the money isn't made up, and it's not that hard to understand. It isn't some grand plot against America or anything, it's just how banks work. I think about 1/3 of the total money in the U.S. economy is actually represented by paper bills, the rest is invested. The government could do whatever they wanted in regards to printing money, and could print it all, but the fact is that the extra bills printed would be useless and just take up space in bank vaults or whatever, since that money would still be used for investments.
During the Great Depression, everyone wanted to take their money out of the banks. As you've noted, banks don't literally have all the cash they're liable for. As a result, many banks closed. This scared people, and caused them to make sure they rushed all their cash outta the bank before their bank closed and left them with nothing. Naturally, more and more banks closed. FDR declared a national banking holiday, and all banks were closed. He then got on the radio and explained to all Americans exactly how the banking system works, where the money really is, and why they shouldn't feel the need to take all their money out. Then FDR and the Congress initiated Federal backing of bank deposits up to a certain amount (I forget exactly what amount), and that amount has substantially risen since. Look this up and see if you can find a copy of FDR's actual fireside chat. It'd go a long way to helping you see what's actually going on. What I was saying was I thought FDR explained all of this already, you just don't understand how the banks work, and I'm way too tired to really get into it. By the way, I still think it's ridiculous for you to say the Fed is privately owned. Show me some evidence damnit. You can't make an outlandish claim that there's this shadow organization of private "money-changers" who underhandedly control the Federal Reserve and then treat it as if you're saying something obvious, like Peanut Butter has Peanuts. That's a very extreme claim, and with an extreme claim, the burden of proof lies on you. |
| Nov20-05, 10:53 PM | #28 |
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nope, it is a private bank. Owned by investors, the investors can't make the decisions of the Fed by law (the 1913 federal reserve act, which they pushed into existance), but they can lobby the government to appoint members to it's board that see things the same way as them. It is in thier interest to be viewed as part of the government, because the people will think that the fed does everything in the interest of the people.
FDR made permenant changes in that he started social security, the WPA, and other public works projects. He also did temporary things which were needed at the time to basically improve the confidence of the american people in thier banks, thus giving them the faith to make deposits, and not make runs on the banks. This didn't eliminate fractional reserve banking though, it just made things so that it can work more efficiently. Some think that fractional reserve banking is okay, in fact a good thing because it puts a bunch more money into the economy, but where does it put the money? In the hands of banks, which use it to lend to people and charge interest to thier liking. It may be that fractional reserve banking creates money out of nothing (ie. with no labor involved to back it's value), but that doesn't make it right. It gives more power to those who hold the money over those who use the money. When you take things up to the top, the Federal reserve is a kind of bank that has only one client, the american government. They can choose to restrict or increase the ammount of issuance, controling bank runs, and untimately having the power to create a banking crisis, which then FDR had to try to solve. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search http://www.save-a-patriot.org/files/view/frcourt.html |
| Nov20-05, 11:21 PM | #29 |
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Find some better sources jonny, generic google searches and websites trying to sell you something don't cut it around here (or well, besides this subforum :P)
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| Nov20-05, 11:47 PM | #30 |
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what about the court case which proved it to be privately owned?
Lewis v. United States, 680 F.2d 1239 (1982) What source do you want? isn't Wikipedia good enough? This may all be new to you, so by all means, research research research Let me reiterate my main arguemnt. The nation ought to issue currency to its own people, because there is no intermediary that charges interest for thier service in this task. All that extra interest is more dibilating than meets the eye, and can be averted by doing something similar to greenbacks (money directly issued to the people). The nation needs a central fiat (not based on gold or silver or anything tangeble) money system, but it doesn't need it to be in private hands. All this talk about fractional reserve banking is an aside. It would still exist after a changeover to a public federal reserve, but could be dealt with in different ways then, and instead of putting the extra money into private banks, it could (by a change of law)go towards paying for government programs like social security and pay off national debt. |
| Nov21-05, 05:05 AM | #31 |
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You want to pay for government programs using the money that people put in banks? Then what happens when someone wants to make a withdrawal? You tell Jonny Retiree to give back his social security check for that month? Or are you saying that interest should continue to be charged, but go toward paying government programs?
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| Nov21-05, 06:23 AM | #32 |
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Just because these people came before or just after 1913 doesn't change principle. Just as it is not valid to say that freedom does not necessarily apply to us now because this is 2005, not 1776, similarly, it is not valid to discredit the opinions of the people above just by saying that the people were born just before 1913. Give reasons for your statements. |
| Nov21-05, 08:24 AM | #33 |
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I Want The Earth Plus 5%
The truth about money, credit and inflation http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials...gan092099.html A Phone Call To The Fed http://www.rense.com/general29/ringring.htm |
| Nov21-05, 08:42 AM | #34 |
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A couple of points;
In answer to those who likened the federal reserve to the justice department and the state department the federal reserve is privately owned unlike their examples. For those who questioned the validity of the criticisms because of their age then I suggest they research the steps JFK took to circumvent the fed and so avoid american taxpayers paying interest on non-existant money. Some believe the currency 'silver backs' he issued directly through the treasury would have spelled the end of the fed if it had continued because this currency was backed by silver with an intrinsic value whereas the fed reserves notes had no intrinsic value and relied purely on confidence. Unfortunately the issuance of this new currency stopped following his assassination but not before he had put $4 billion into circulation in competition with the fed reserve's notes which following his demise were promptly recalled. For more information see executive order 11110 http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/executiveorder11110.htm |
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