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SOS and the design argument

by RAD4921
Tags: argument, design
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RAD4921
#1
Nov26-05, 03:44 PM
P: 314
SOS links:
http://www.ncst.ernet.in/kbcs/vivek/...1/sos/sos....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-organization


I think most would agree that there is organization in the universe whether it be from biological systems or inorganic systems such as super-cooled helium or superconductors.

Does organization support the design srgument for God? Can organization arise from pure chaos? If there is no hiearchy of intelligence then where does organization originate?
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russ_watters
#2
Nov26-05, 03:56 PM
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P: 22,234
Quote Quote by RAD4921
I think most would agree that there is organization in the universe whether it be from biological systems or inorganic systems such as super-cooled helium or superconductors.
Certainly.
Does organization support the design srgument for God?
Certainly not.
Can organization arise from pure chaos?
What do you mean by "pure chaos"? If nothing else, the universe has a set of groundrules that have been in effect since it started, so I'm not sure you can say there was "pure chaos" at the beginning.

Besides - entropy is a measure of "chaos" or disorder, and the total entropy of the universe has been increasing since it's start.

However, if you are asking if localized order can result from relative disorder based on the laws of physics, the answer is most definitely yes. The laws of physics make pockets of order an absolute inevitability.
If there is no hiearchy of intelligence then where does organization originate?
Why does there need to be an origin to the laws of physics?
droog
#3
Nov30-05, 07:42 AM
P: 20
I think simple cellular automata like rule 110 below:

Give us a big hint as to the true source of all the apparent design in the world:

OK, the automata running on the shell is only decorative (the rules are played out by the molecules of pigment in the developing edge of the shell ) but the principle is being visibly played-out by nature. But none of the rules we know about are anything special, in the case above they are inevitable when combinatorial state spaces are explored. Randomness like Brownian motion, acting on materials (molecules) is all it that's required for this so long as it all takes place away from thermal equilibrium. This much alone ought to put pay to the ID theorists.
Why we have a universe with sufficient variety of combinatorial state spaces is another matter. However there are some good theories that posit unlimited scope to the application of the evolutionary principle. After all, why should it only apply at a biological level?
PS Is there a way to post images on these forums? Normal BB code doesn't seem to work

loseyourname
#4
Nov30-05, 09:11 AM
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SOS and the design argument

droog:

[img] tags are only turned on in the General Discussion forum. If you want to imbed a picture in your post, you'll have to upload and attach it. A decently sized thumbnail will show at the bottom of your post.


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