Do You Believe There is Intelligent Life Beyond Earth?

Niels Bohr

Drake's Equation is used to show that chances are that intelligent life evolved in other parts of the universe.

Then I consider the possibility of Superstring Theory: alternative universes/dimensions where we would be completely oblivious to any intelligent life there.

And consider our limited intelligence: we may not have the cognitive abilities to see what is really out there, similar to how lower animals cannot know what humans know.

Reputable news sources, such as the History Channel, document many UFOs which to date have not been identified.

Stories about actual contact with ETs.

Paranormality/UFO/ET sources:
http://www.rense.com/ufo/ufo.htm
http://www.rense.com/historic/hist.htm
http://www.rense.com/general44/nmxx.htm
http://www.rense.com/general41/dayfo.htm
http://www.rense.com/general41/flying.htm
http://www.rense.com/general41/flying.htm
http://www.rense.com/general32/rapidflight.htm
http://www.rense.com/general31/woods1A.htm
http://www.rense.com/general32/rend.htm
http://www.rense.com/general43/orig.htm
http://www.rense.com/ufo4/historyofufo.htm

Regards,

Niels Bohr

Niels Bohr

Some "UFO Experts" speculate that some UFOs are actually time machines from the future of Earth. I of course remain agnostic to anything dealing with the paranormality.

Niels Bohr

russ_watters

Yes.

However, none of the links (edit - actually, thats only ONE source) you provided have anything to do with intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. They are not grounded in reality.

There is a reason UFO and ghost sites are often found together - both are part of the same grab-bag of pseudoscientific nonsense.

radagast

Beyond Earth, Hell I'm still looking for it here.

Niels Bohr

My sources don't claim to be scientific, they are just summaries of what people claim to have witnessed or photographed. You are guilty of Straw Man.

Regards,

Niels Bohr

J/Psi

whenever i play around with drake's equation, i obtain a very low prob of intelligent life

one observation i can't dismiss is given the sheer abundance and variety of life on earth, only one species is intelligent/self aware/etc. certainly on earth, evolution favors other avenues of survival; is it not unreasonable to assume the bias toward unintelligent life applies universally?

Guybrush Threepwood

that because none of the numbers and probabilityes involved are exactly known...

J/Psi

whether are not the inputs are "exactly known" is irrelevant; of course they are educated (hopefully) guesses. the point is whenever i input what i think is a reasonable range of assumptions spanning several orders of magnitude, i get an end result that is not optimistic.

Guybrush Threepwood

Drake's equation

would you mind showing us some values and justifing them (some links would be appreciated here)???

J/Psi

Rare Earth

russ_watters

Straw man? You provided the source without making a specific claim of your own leaving me to infer what your point was. Regardless, I must ask then what the point was in posting that site?

jgravatt

Is the Drake equation all inclusive? Could there be other factors involved in estimating the number of civilizations in our

galaxy that is not taken into consideration in the Drake equation? Could any of the components that is used in the Drake

Equation be superfluous information? Any additional or any missing information could dramatically affect the intended

result. I'm not trying to intentionally debunk the accuracy of the Drake equation as it seems to be a well formulated and

well thought out equation, I am merely asking the question: Could there be more to it? Here are some thoughts to consider.

The following information has been taken from http://www.seti-inst.edu/seti/seti_s..._equation.html .
My comments will be placed with parenthesis().


The Drake Equation: N = R* • fp • ne • fl • fi • fc • L


N = The number of civilizations in The Milky Way Galaxy whose electromagnetic emissions are detectable.
(This number would not include civilizations whose emissions cannot be detected - assuming the technology that has

been used there actually gives off emissions into deep space)


R* =The rate of formation of stars suitable for the development of intelligent life.
(This would only include star systems we feel are suitable. Is it possible that an intelligent civilization does
not need to meet our requirements of suitability to prosper)


fp = The fraction of those stars with planetary systems.
(Justifibly, we assume that these civilizations currently or at one time occupied a planetary system. Could a

civilization out of our galaxy now occupy something other than a planetary system? Could the planetary system no

longer exist and the civilization now lives on an artifical device?)


ne = The number of planets, per solar system, with an environment suitable for life.
(Simliar to the thought above)


fl = The fraction of suitable planets on which life actually appears.
(We gauge the suitability of a planet relative to what we require. Could an alien civilization live in a place we

deem inhabitable?)


fi = The fraction of life bearing planets on which intelligent life emerges. For more information, please visit Dr. William

Calvin's "The Drake Equation's fi"
(So far, our only experience of intelligent life emerging from a life bearing planet is Earth; therefore, this number

is currently at 100%. We have no other basis to the estimate the probability that nonintelligent life gives
rise to intelligent life.)


fc = The fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space.
(Could they develop technology foreign to us? Could they develop technology that does not release emissions into
deep space?)


L = The length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into space.
(This uses the length of time that alien civilizations acutally release detectable signals. Should it also be
relative to the length of time we are actually capable of detecting them?)



Jeremy

Ivan Seeking

This is one of the few points about which I have high confidence: Intelligent life does exist elsewhere beyond any reasonable doubt. I think the only real question is how common intelligent life may be.

If we didn't exist, my opinion on this matter would be much more tentative. [;)]

jgravatt

I'm with you Ivan, I have no doubts that intelligent life exists elsewhere. I just feel that someone making a claim that it is improbable that life exists elsewhere based merely on the computation of the Drake equation is guilty of ignorance. As I said early, the equation seems to be well thought out, but maybe not thought out enough. I feel that there are far too many variables to take into consideration while estimating the probability of intelligent life. Right now, we just don't have enough information to gauge the extent of intelligent life.

Jeremy

Ivan Seeking

Not only do most interprations of the Drake equation that I've seen suggest a high probability for intelligent life, but the Drake eqn only addresses this galaxy. How many galaxies are there?

The question was beyond earth, not just in this galaxy.

EDIT: by the way, welcome to PF jgravatt! [:)]

(Q)

Intelligent life does exist elsewhere beyond any reasonable doubt.

Considering that evolution does not demand intelligence, there is most certainly reasonable doubt. Your assertion is most likely based on what you want to believe.

Ivan Seeking

So far, the evidence shows that given enough time, the chance for intelligence where we find life is 1.

Personal attacks will not be tolerated. That's your second warning. Stick to the facts and stop the pseudo-psychological analyses.