How Is the Permutation (23) Expressed as a Product of Transpositions?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around expressing the permutation (23) as a product of transpositions within the context of abstract algebra, specifically focusing on the definitions and methods for such expressions. Participants explore the confusion surrounding the application of a specific definition to derive the expression for (23) and the rationale behind the selection of transpositions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that a cycle of m symbols can be expressed as a product of m - 1 transpositions, but they express confusion about how this applies to the specific case of (23).
  • One participant mentions that there can be multiple ways to express a permutation as a product of transpositions, indicating that the method used in the example may not be unique.
  • Another participant suggests that an algorithmic procedure could be used to derive the expression for (23), but struggles to articulate it clearly.
  • There is a discussion about whether the examples provided in the source material are meant to be illustrative without requiring a specific motivation for the choice of transpositions.
  • Participants express uncertainty about the connection between the definition of cycles and the specific transpositions used to express (23).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that expressing permutations as products of transpositions is valid, but they disagree on the clarity and applicability of the definition to the example of (23). The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific method of deriving the transpositions.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the selection of transpositions based on the provided definition, indicating a potential gap in the explanation or examples given in the source material.

wubie
Hello,

I am a little confused about an example. By definition,

A cycle of m symbols CAN be written as a product of m - 1 transpositions.

(x1 x2 x3 ... xn) = (x1 x2)(x1 x3)...(x1 xn)


Now

Express the permutation (23) on S = {1,2,3,4,5} as a product of transpositions.


(23) = (12) o (23) o (13) = (12) o (13) o (12)


I can see how it works. But based on the def. I don't see how they came up with the answer. I know this is simple but I don't see it. What the hey?
 
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I'm a little confused; (2, 3) is a product of transpositions...

can you provide a little more of the context?
 
I am confused too.

This is in Schaum's Outlines of Modern Abstract Algebra. It is in Chapter 2: Relations and Operations, under the section Permutations.

The question/ example above is exactly as it is in the book.
I know that a permutation can be expressed as a product of transpositions. And that there can be more than one way to express a permutation as a product of transpositions. I think that is what they are trying to show.

However I don't understand the method in which they selected these particular transpositions to express the permutation (23). I can see that it works out. But why/how did they know that (23) was a product of the above transpositions? Trial and error?
 
Ah, an example; it makes more sense now.

Anyways, I can see an algorithmic procedure that gives you the second example, but I'm tongue-tied trying to explain it... if you limit yourself to the condition that each transposition must have '1' in it, you could probably figure the procedure out for yourself.


I can motivate the first one from products of transpositions:
(12) (23) = (23) (13)
so
(23) = (12) (23) (13)

then again, they might simply just be examples without expecting any motivation.
 
It just confused me since the way they got the product of transpositions for (23) wasn't based on the defintion.

(x1 x2 x3 ... xn) = (x1 x2)(x1 x3)...(x1 xn)

I mean, using the def. I couldn't see how one could come up with

(23) = (12) o (23) o (13) = (12) o (13) o (12).

Thanks Hurkyl.
 

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