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Muhammad caricatures

by Azael
Tags: caricatures, muhammad
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Azael
#1
Feb1-06, 02:18 PM
P: 324
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4670370.stm

I have to say that I have never seen a more ridicilously overblown reaction to anyhing. Boycotting a whole nation because of what one paper published.

I think this realy shows how far behind the middle east is. If they can not even understand how freedom of press works they are in a realy sad state.

I hope they atleast understand that not many of us nordic people realy give a damn about how they feel on what we publish in our papers. I just hope no nordic politican will start kissing *** to smooth this over.
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devious_
#2
Feb1-06, 02:28 PM
P: 347
To Muslims it's a matter of principle and belief. Your attitude of "[we] don't give a damn about how they feel [if we do so-so]" is what's offensive.
Azael
#3
Feb1-06, 02:33 PM
P: 324
well western papers prints satires on ALL religions. I would be very worried if papers didnt make fun and semi insult every belife there is including my own.

There is to much politicaly correct bull**** flowing around. The caricature just shows how the general population looks at islam. Maby the islamic countries should look within to se what makes the rest of the world have that view.

devious_
#4
Feb1-06, 02:38 PM
P: 347
Muhammad caricatures

I agree. I'm Muslim and I think the current state of the Islamic world is just terrible. I also agree the political correctness is utter crap 99% of the time (e.g. the whole "merry Christmas" and "happy holidays" bs). But my point was that people have the right to be offended when their beliefs are insulted/disregarded.
chroot
#5
Feb1-06, 02:39 PM
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Hey, you know, political cartoons the world over have made fun of the Pope, priests, Jehova's witnesses, Jews, and every other religion on the planet. Such cartoons didn't just poke fun at some group of people, they actually attacked a specific religion.

Did the Catholics rise up in holy Jihad against the New Yorker magazine? No.

Personally, the fundamentalist Islamic reaction to such cartoons indicates how necessary such cartoons are. The rest of the world needs to know how backwards these people are, and these people definitely need to learn how unimportant they really are in a global context. No group of people -- Christians, Muslims, or Jehova's witnesses -- is somehow singularly more important, or deserves to have their precious feelings coddled by the rest of humanity. In short, I think they need to get over themselves, and learn to live in a world of global communication in which the vast majority of people simply don't agree with them.

While I do not support our war in Iraq, and I am rather against the US' continued involvement in the politics of the Middle East, I'm definitely of the opinion that these are a people out to pick a fight. If a silly cartoon -- an opinion expressed by one person who is paid to make such silly cartoons -- can somehow become a rationale for mass hysteria, a boycott, death threats, or a Holy War, it does not bode well for their society's future in our newly globalized world.

- Warren
Azael
#6
Feb1-06, 02:42 PM
P: 324
Quote Quote by devious_
I agree. I'm Muslim and I think the current state of the Islamic world is just terrible. I also agree the political correctness is utter crap 99% of the time (e.g. the whole "merry Christmas" and "happy holidays" bs). But my point was that people have the right to be offended when their beliefs are insulted/disregarded.
Offcourse people have a right to be upset.
But there is a difference betwen beeing upset and crying out hystericaly. I dont se anything in those cartoons that deserves this kind of response. Some of them where quite funny.

There is much bigger issues that needs to be adressed in those countries.
For instance I dont se these kind of protest against the much worse insult towards muhammads teachings that suicide bombers represent.



Quote Quote by chroot
Hey, you know, political cartoons the world over have made fun of the Pope, priests, Jehova's witnesses, Jews, and every other religion on the planet. Such cartoons didn't just poke fun at some group of people, they actually attacked a specific religion.

Did the Catholics rise up in holy Jihad against the New Yorker magazine? No.

Personally, the fundamentalist Islamic reaction to such cartoons indicates how necessary such cartoons are. The rest of the world needs to know how backwards these people are, and these people definitely need to learn how unimportant they really are in a global context. No group of people -- Christians, Muslims, or Jehova's witnesses -- is somehow singularly more important, or deserves to have their precious feelings coddled by the rest of humanity. In short, I think they need to get over themselves, and learn to live in a world of global communication in which the vast majority of people simply don't agree with them.

While I do not support our war in Iraq, and I am rather against the US' continued involvement in the politics of the Middle East, I'm definitely of the opinion that these are a people out to pick a fight. If a silly cartoon -- an opinion expressed by one person who is paid to make such silly cartoons -- can somehow become a rationale for mass hysteria, a boycott, death threats, or a Holy War, it does not bode well for their society's future in our newly globalized world.

- Warren
Extremely well put
devious_
#7
Feb1-06, 02:51 PM
P: 347
You can't really compare the Pope, priests, Jehova's witnesses or Jews to Mohammad. Cartoons mocking Muslims and Islamic figures are very common, however there is a fine line between mocking such things and mocking the prophet of Islam. Sure, cartoons of Jesus, Moses, or whoever else, might be of the norm in Western countries, but that is not the case in Islamic countries. Graphically depicting prophets is a big no-no in Islam, which is why many people are outraged. I don't expect you to understand their rationale; in fact I respect your opinion to think it's silly, but that's besides the point.

Add this to the general mockery Muslims get from the media, and the result is an extreme reaction of sorts.
devious_
#8
Feb1-06, 02:57 PM
P: 347
Quote Quote by Azael
I dont se anything in those cartoons that deserves this kind of response.
Really?!

"The caricatures include drawings of Muhammad wearing a headdress shaped like a bomb, while another shows him saying that paradise was running short of virgins for suicide bombers."

For instance I dont se these kind of protest against the much worse insult towards muhammads teachings that suicide bombers represent.
But the cartoons are portraying Mohammad himself as a suicide bomber, or at least an advocate of suicide bombing.
Azael
#9
Feb1-06, 03:03 PM
P: 324
Quote Quote by devious_
Really?!

"The caricatures include drawings of Muhammad wearing a headdress shaped like a bomb, while another shows him saying that paradise was running short of virgins for suicide bombers."
That one with the virgin is what made me laugh out loud. It was spot on imo.

Quote Quote by devious_
But the cartoons are portraying Mohammad himself as a suicide bomber, or at least an advocate of suicide bombing.
Well isnt that how the extremist muslims try to justify suicide bombings? They claim its what god wants and since mohammad is the word of god he endorses it in there oppinion. I dont even se why the extremist that calls for the eradication of israel should even be upset. Its just there belife put in paint. Maby they dont like the outside view of themself.

This is also the only view of islam many people get so obviously they relate mohammad to suicide bombers like in that cartoon. The cartoon is a perfect representation of the avarage joes view on islam.
Azael
#10
Feb1-06, 03:04 PM
P: 324
I should point out that I dont share this view on islam. But I can freely admit that I laughed at that cartoon.
devious_
#11
Feb1-06, 03:08 PM
P: 347
Ugh...

The cartoon could have easily depicted a random extremist, but instead they chose to mock Mohammad, the prophet of Islam. That is just crossing the line.

The fact that the average Joe thinks all Muslims are suicide-bombing fanatics and lunatics is precisely what is causing the outrage! The media is just helping spread this point of view.
Azael
#12
Feb1-06, 03:12 PM
P: 324
Quote Quote by devious_
Ugh...

The cartoon could have easily depicted a random extremist, but instead they chose to mock Mohammad, the prophet of Islam. That is just crossing the line.

The fact that the average Joe thinks all Muslims are suicide-bombing fanatics and lunatics is precisely what is causing the outrage! The media is just helping spread this point of view.
Well yes I agree that they could have used a random extremist. But they want to sell papers so they use mohammad himself. Im betting that paper sold more than anyone in its history.

The avarage joes point of view is reaffirmed everytime we hear news about a suicide bomber.
Its up to the islamic world to show they deserve the respect of the rest of the world, by cleaning up the word of mohammad and return to what is accutualy preached. Not this insane twist to endorse war.
chroot
#13
Feb1-06, 03:19 PM
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Quote Quote by devious_
Sure, cartoons of Jesus, Moses, or whoever else, might be of the norm in Western countries, but that is not the case in Islamic countries.
So what? They want to be engaged in worldwide politics, so they better get used to interacting with people vastly different from themselves -- people who don't hold their views, and don't have any obligation to uphold their traditions. The world's a big place, kids. Grow up.
Graphically depicting prophets is a big no-no in Islam, which is why many people are outraged.
Moral outrage is one thing -- sure, discuss among your friends how deplorable the cartoon was -- but threatening to bomb the newspaper that printed the cartoon? Give me a break! There's a wide gulf between newspapers being tactful and people being killed over a cartoon.

- Warren
devious_
#14
Feb1-06, 03:20 PM
P: 347
Quote Quote by Azael
Well yes I agree that they could have used a random extremist. But they want to sell papers so they use mohammad himself. Im betting that paper sold more than anyone in its history.
So you're saying mocking a religious figured whom millions hold in high esteem just to make a quick buck isn't a valid reason to be pissed off?

The avarage joes point of view is reaffirmed everytime we hear news about a suicide bomber.
Its up to the islamic world to show they deserve the respect of the rest of the world, by cleaning up the word of mohammad and return to what is accutualy preached. Not this insane twist to endorse war.
You make it sound like we aren't trying. There is an ongoing effort of social correction in the Islamic world, and there are several large organizations that are doing exactly what you're saying: returning the word of Mohammad to what it actually preached. But you don't really see that in the media, do you? Instead you see people mocking Muslims and portraying us as a barbaric society of extremists.
devious_
#15
Feb1-06, 03:25 PM
P: 347
Quote Quote by chroot
So what? They want to be engaged in worldwide politics, so they better get used to interacting with people vastly different from themselves -- people who don't hold their views, and don't have any obligation to uphold their traditions. The world's a big place, kids. Grow up.
Not holding someone's views is entirely different from outright mocking them, wouldn't you say?

Moral outrage is one thing -- sure, discuss among your friends how deplorable the cartoon was -- but threatening to bomb the newspaper that printed the cartoon? Give me a break! There's a wide gulf between newspapers being tactful and people being killed over a cartoon.

- Warren
Where did I say that I supported the death threats and such? In fact, like any other sane person, I'm completely opposed to them. Violence can only serve as temporary solution (I'm using the word "solution" lightly). The point is to start acting in a civilized manner, and this includes respecting people and their beliefs and opinions.
chroot
#16
Feb1-06, 03:29 PM
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Quote Quote by devious_
The cartoon could have easily depicted a random extremist, but instead they chose to mock Mohammad, the prophet of Islam. That is just crossing the line.
Is mocking the Pope because some priest fondled children somehow not crossing the same line?
The fact that the average Joe thinks all Muslims are suicide-bombing fanatics and lunatics is precisely what is causing the outrage!
Hey, if the shoe fits..... can you name any other group of people who are regularly employing suicide bombings today? I can't. That's not to say that all Muslims are suicide bombers, but it's a fair bet that all suicide bombers are Muslim.

These fanatical Muslims want world recognition and respect. They want to bend the entirety of humanity to their will. They want to see everyone else subservient to them. The fact that the only tools they have available to accomplish this rather outlandish goal are some people strapped with rather weak explosives is, in my opinion, laughable. It's as if someone dropped a busload of kindergarteners on the steps of the UN, and the kindergartners tried to take it over by force.

What's ironic is that the more these militant Muslims try to achieve their goal, the more laughable they become. It's pathetic, really, that they've taken to killing reporters and engineers, and blowing up fast-food restaurants. They deserve every scrap of criticism they get, from any media, cartoon, or editorial. They deserve to face the reality of how unsuccessful their Holy War has really been, or how little anyone else in the world respects them for trying to appoint themselves supreme rulers. The world's a big place, kids. Grow up.

- Warren
Azael
#17
Feb1-06, 03:31 PM
P: 324
Quote Quote by devious_
So you're saying mocking a religious figured whom millions hold in high esteem just to make a quick buck isn't a valid reason to be pissed off?
no not realy. People just have to accept that is how the world works. Nothing is to sacred to be made fun of by someone. Going around getting pissed and threatening to bomb someone for a cheap joke is not a sane response.

One thing to be a little pist. Another to boycott a whole country and demand a apology from a goverment that has nothing to do with the paper.

Quote Quote by devious_
You make it sound like we aren't trying. There is an ongoing effort of social correction in the Islamic world, and there are several large organizations that are doing exactly what you're saying: returning the word of Mohammad to what it actually preached. But you don't really see that in the media, do you? Instead you see people mocking Muslims and portraying us as a barbaric society of extremists.
Im aware that you are trying. Im just speaking like a avarage joe would.
The middle eastern countries needs a serious make over for the world to look upon islam differently. Most people are not even aware that there is more muslims outside of the middle east.
When you have people like the iranian president saying what he does that is what people will think. The newspapers in the western world doesnt even have to try to make islam look very bad when it is in this state.

More good news about the fight against terrorism in the islamic countries would be welcommed by me for sure. But it appears to do little good from a outside observer.
chroot
#18
Feb1-06, 03:33 PM
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Quote Quote by devious_
The point is to start acting in a civilized manner, and this includes respecting people and their beliefs and opinions.
In my opinon, that's dead wrong. The point is for them to start acting in a manner that recognizes that the rest of humanity has no obligation to respect them or their beliefs.

Sure, it's nice for newspapers to remain tactful and respect the beliefs of all people -- but there's absolutely no obligation involved, nor should there be any.

- Warren


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