Muhammad caricatures

Cyrus

Yes, but as you are aware, alot of those KKK memebers, are recruited by fanatic preachers, that tell them GOD has made them the super race. They have a connection as well. Does the KKK not call for the extermination of ALL other non-white races, by definition? Yet they still do not represent the majority, not even the minority of American opinon on foreigners.

Yes, there is a limit. Look at the limit the KKK, for example take their speech. I think the people that made such harsh threats were a small minority. Furthermore, they can protest as much as they like. Until they act on the threat, we really just cant say if they are blowing off steam, or if they intend on acting out. What does the evidence show us, have they acted out, other than burning some trees?

vanesch

Oh, well, that's good enough, no ?

Seriously, there's always the balance between what is *right in principle* but would, practically, generate such a mess, that one should maybe think twice, on one hand, and a practical attitude that denies so much every principle that one stands for, that one has become a total prostitute on the other hand. The right way is in the middle somewhere, no ? It's like a market economy: principles have a high, but finite price. The price you're willing to pay can be relatively high, but when reacting according to a certain principle would cost you much more than what you think it's really worth, you don't go for the deal. Sending in uproar police against a demonstration which is already the fruit of high irrationality and heated minds, is maybe not, pragmatically, the best deal. Letting them have their demonstration is probably the best thing if this can let off some steam from the boiler.

I have to say that I'm quite satisfied with the French attitude vs. the ME (for your information, I'm not french, I only live here, so I'm not exposing some form of silly patriotism), it seems to be trying to find the right balance between principles and pragmatism. That cannot be said about everybody

WarrenPlatts

There are some things that do not have a market price. If you don't believe me, just ask the Islamofascists.

vanesch

But aren't we all arguing that they are wrong ? Why then fall into the same trap ?

WarrenPlatts

The KKK is ancient history.

I am an unreconstructed descendent of rebels and Mormons that might be considered to have a legitimate excuse to fight against the feds. I don't know when your people came to the United States, but my ancestors actually fought the American Civil Wars. But I'm over it. I shall not be an apologist for the KKK like you are for OBL and his gang. Really, defending the Islamists who would threaten to exterminate Europe over a Danish cartoon by comparing them to the KKK is not a compelling argument.

Which is strange. You seem to be, Cyrus, an ordinary beer-drinking, NASCAR loving, patriotic American. What gives? You could actually serve us well if you'd get off your high horse and realize the truth.

Cyrus

Well, I am a beer-drinking NASCAS loving, patroic American. Im just careful not to be a blindly follow the leader knows best uninformed american. Why dont they have NASCAR in DC area...........

Cyrus

Im not defending them im defending their rights. They can say whatever they want, no matter how awful, but because its directed at Europe they cant stomach it. Well, they did direct that cartoon at the Middle East. You get what you deserve, dont cry about it after you know what you did deliberately. Because thats called a double standard.

Curious3141

I am not advocating "the violent act" (this wasn't censored, I decided to be nebulous to preempt censorship) on ALL imams or holy men. The ones who peacefully guide their flock will of course, NOT be touched, they are the examples we need.

OTOH, imams who do pervert the faith and call for the blood of innocents need a sticky end to come to them. If possible, an arrest, a trial, a jail term, but I know that these snakes wield enough power to influence their followers from jail to commit even more atrocities to pressure the govt for their freedom. And I think most Muslim countries live in terrible fear of the power wielded by the imams, especially the radical ones we all love to despise.

I think it's time for that power to end. OK, "shooting" was a hyperbole borne out of frustration, I would at least like to see extradition to a secular country with life imprisonment for them.

And fear of 2 billion Muslims is not going to change my mind. If they are stupid enough to support murdering bastards like these particular holy men, they are my enemies, and I will not cower before enemies. What I hope for is for sanity to prevail amongs the majority of Muslims, but if they rise up over this, so be it, we fight. Because right is right.

Cyrus

BUMBUMBUMBUMBUMBUMBUMBUMBUMBUMBUMBUMBUMBUMBUMBUM You and warren seem to beat the drums of war. lol


Yes, you talk tough, but they are just as tough if not worse. You seem to like to throw gasoline on fire to see what will happen. I don't recomend that.


And to what extent do you determine who is extreme enough to live or die. So now you are going to basically run islam? Now your hosing the fire with gasoline.

Yes, jail would be acceptable. They would not be martyrs. A trial is tricky, you dont want them to come off as being put in there by an unfair trial due to corrupt non-religious government. Again, adding more fuel to that fire.

At this point, you have pumped more gas into this fire than a Kuwaiti oil field.

sanchecl

If the majority of Muslims are peace-loving folks that simply want to provide for their families, where is this majority's voice of condemnation about the violence being advocated by such a small group of extremists? I agree that the media have a nasty habit of only airing sensational soundbites that ususally don't represent the whole story but one doesn't have to look very hard to get the rest of the story that didn't catch headlines. That doesn't seem to be the case with this story.

Where are the heads of state or religious leaders from the Middle East on this? Proclaiming the tolerant virtues of Islam? No! Calling for calm and reason? No! At best, I think one can say that some of them are refraining from fanning the flames too much.

Islam, near as I can tell, is not a religion of tolerance and peace. Islam does have one leg up on the KKK though: you have the opportunity to convert to Islam but it is a bit more difficult to change the color of one's skin.

WarrenPlatts

The sad fact my brother is that this is the best I've been able to come up with so far: Islamic Rulings on Warfare.

Leave it to the United States Army (USA) to uncover the truth.

Curious3141

I don't call living in fear real living.

If you think the things I've said are fueling some fire then GOOD. Let's hope it burns this archaic sixteenth century mindset down.

You can go and play pacifist/sympathiser. It didn't work for Hitler and it won't work now. If it comes down to it and these indignant "faithful" are knocking down my door, I will shoot to kill, or die trying.

Censor *that* if you want.

Art

It's ironic that this thread was started to condemn muslims for their protests over the publication of cartoons. Many posters (myself included) felt that they had gone too far especially in regard to their torching of embassies and yet having criticised them for over reaction we now have people of the 'free world' equally guilty of over reacting in their responses to the muslim's over reaction.

Here through this small international microcosm it is easy to see how conflicts fueled by prejudice and bigotry can quickly escalate through leaps and bounds into all out war.

Moonbear

Those seem to be good last words for the thread Art, and now it's closed. I've had to pick up too much trash in here and as interesting as much of the discussion was, this thread is requiring far too much babysitting.