Males Versus Females

Monochrome

Men are just as likely to pass their genes on to their daughters as to their sons.

And then you go ahead and talk about the Y chromosome which is only passed from father to son, I am the only one who thinks you just agreed with me despite saying you didn't? Also we are decades away from knowing how the different proteins coded on any gene affect specific areas of the body. So it is equally asinine to assume that the Y chromosome only codes for two things.

You might take note that like many others here, English is not her native language.

My native language is Bulgarian followed by Vlashki, then English and Spanish. Which just reflects on your worldview that everyone here is from the Anglo-Saxon world unless otherwise specified.

That you only know of three women scientists only speaks to your own ignorance of the subject.

You know, you would be completely correct if that is what I said rather than:

Merely look at the lists of prominent scientists

You said:

Oh, and I should also point out the hilarity of your argument about evolution selecting for the "elite" athletes.

Before that I said:

individuals in the male population when matched to their equivocal percentile in the female population will excel at the given criteria by which the comparison is made

I would like to add that this is the case for criteria that relate to competitiveness to attract mates, ie strength, health, brains in males.

Again, in terms of evolutionary fitness, the male running away at the sight of a predator doesn't really help the pregnant female much.

You say it yourself the male survives. He reproduces again, the most successful man in reproductive history (Genghis Khan) wasn't a protector. He was a warlord who was strong, healthy and cunning all positively selected traits. Nor would protectionism be a strategy which would spread genes very far as the protector is likely to die and his offspring along with him. And of course there is the nasty little statistic that one in ten children does not belong to the father who is looking after it.

But again you missed the point about female selection of mates. Until you debunk that any Y chromosome that gives an advantage over others in the population through sexually describable traits - strength, heath, intelligence - will spread while not giving the female any benefit whatsoever. While the reverse would cause an increase in the fitness of the woman's offspring regardless of their sex. Also my point about removing harmful mutations from the Y chromosome twice as fast stands.

Cyrus

Quote by Lisa!

Evo, I really didn't expect you to say such a thing base on what a kiddie say. He just wants to draw attention by what he says!

As far as I know our culture is alot more modern than yours.

Iran's culture is much older. (Ok, I'm just yanking your chain on that one

). Iran does have a long and old history and culture, that's certainly true. And women were a part of that culture.

Don't care what some dummie are thinking about women because of what they learned from Arabs.

Let's not blame the Arabs for Iran's own choice of actions.

Our woemn were in authority long time ago when in most of countries people didn't consider women as human beings.

Yes, long ago. But not anymore.

You think your culture is modeern and don't have that sorta problem anymore. So go read some of post of kiddies and adults in very this board. What they say about women is more backwarded of what some Iranian think.

Don't compare what some people say on a forum to the general society. Generally speaking, the status of women in Iran is no where near the same as that of women in western society.

Look, let's not kid ourselves, you live in a very repressed society. What do you honestly expect from people living in such conditions? The last time I was in Iran, everyone looked miserable. The cities are underdeveloped and there are alot of poor people. If I didn’t have family there, I wouldn't visit. There's nothing to do there or see, it's a sad sight. (And too many people there are smoking drugs all the time

).

Why dont you look through this list and then tell me Iranian society is on the same level as the rest of the world....

http://www.wfafi.org/laws.pdf#search...in%20iran'

http://www.wfafi.org/

They don't even let men and women enter through the same door Lisa............... stop kidding yourself.

scott1

26.5 post a day so far this thread more then franzbear

...

Astronuc

Quote by Monochrome

And then you go ahead and talk about the Y chromosome which is only passed from father to son, I am the only one who thinks you just agreed with me despite saying you didn't? Also we are decades away from knowing how the different proteins coded on any gene affect specific areas of the body. So it is equally asinine to assume that the Y chromosome only codes for two things.

Men also pass on an X chromosome to their daughters. And Moonbear isn't agreeing with you.

Quote by Monochrome

My native language is Bulgarian followed by Vlashki, then English and Spanish. Which just reflects on your worldview that everyone here is from the Anglo-Saxon world unless otherwise specified.

Then you should appreciate the sometime difficulty in translation and grammar.

Quote by Monochrome

You say it yourself the male survives. He reproduces again, the most successful man in reproductive history (Genghis Khan) wasn't a protector. He was a warlord who was strong, healthy and cunning all positively selected traits. Nor would protectionism be a strategy which would spread genes very far as the protector is likely to die and his offspring along with him. And of course there is the nasty little statistic that one in ten children does not belong to the father who is looking after it.

But look where his decendants are today. And then there is an Irish king who may have several million descendants.

Statistically one will find that single women live longer than single men and married men. It would appear that men 'need' women more than women need men.

Those who think they are superior, are not.

scott1

Quote by Lisa!

So why is that men and women never grow up to stop being sexist and opposing each other? I mean they're always making bad jokes about each other and try to prove their superiority. That's pretty annoying and childish.

I've to meet someone who really thinks men and women are equal. It seems to me that most of them think "well, let women to have the same rights but at the end it's us guys who rule the world." It just drives me nuts when I see men think they should take care of women and they're cleverer and stronger than women.
Am I just roverrating things because of what happened to me today or the situation is really the way I experessed?

It started way before the extistance of humans. It probally with the first dinosaurs.

Bladibla

I think that women can be friendly, and are necessary, but not for 96.8% of the women population.

Lisa!

Quote by Moonbear

Unless I missed something, I think Evo was just playing around (we're always looking for an excuse to take the Turbo RV out for a spin).

Not a good excuse! Evo is a mentor and she shouldn't let a thread goes off topic especially if the OP doesn't want it. know she was just playing around, but that's not good to join a kiddie and do that. Just because I'm easy going about people's comments through my thread or on me, doesn't mean mentor should let them doing that!

I don't think either culture is more modern than the other, though, I've never been to Iran to experience it first hand. Then again, it's a bit hard to quantify modernness. Nationalism really is very similar to the male/female debate. There are a lot of differences, and it seems somewhat natural for people to feel that the traits they hold or their country holds are the ones that are the best or most important. I really think it comes down to self-confidence. If you're confident enough to know that you're not going to be less of a person if you openly admit that the other sex, or another country, or another culture, etc., also has great qualities, and is as good as you at them, then you see how much more enjoyable life is to stop wasting time on meaningless comparisons (not to mention how much less hostile it would be).

Well sorry I never like it whenIranians tend to send cardpostal to themselves and saying things like we had such a great culture we're smart we're ...so you can never blame me on thatsince I always say it's not that important where you used to be, it's important that where you are and where you're going to be. Si

What I meant was that our people have the potential to be a modern country as they used to be and you shouldn't accuse whole Iranian of being backwarded and narrowminded because of a few fanatics. The problem in all cases is that it's always fanactic's voices that's heard by the world:
1. Open minded people never bother to shut them up and they also never do silly actions in order to e heard.
2. well your media wants that voice to be heard by you.

We definitely still have a problem with sexism in the US. I don't think Evo was suggesting otherwise. It has improved quite a lot in the past few decades, but it's still present, especially among the older generation. Though, what's noteworthy, and started to be presented earlier in the thread, but didn't get followed through on, is that as women are gaining a firm foothold in many male-dominated areas, there's a greater tendency of sexism toward men. In other words, if a man says a derogatory remark about women, he'll get cut off and corrected very quickly, but if a woman says a derogatory remark about men, it is very much tolerated still. I almost never hear a guy saying that a woman should do the cleaning anymore, but I still often hear women saying that men aren't any good at it, they can't see dirt, they just make a big mess, they just swish a mop around and think everything is clean, etc. You really can't have it both ways. You can't complain if men tell you cleaning is women's work and complain that men can't do the job. But somehow, people still get away with that. The reality is that there are just as many female slobs as there are male slobs, and just as many men as women who will notice even a speck out of place, or dust in the corners, or who would be disgusted at the idea of using a dirty rag to wipe down the kitchen countertops.

I'm sure that problem exists in any country and you can simply get to know that by reading some of poss here. I'm not going to say all people in US must be the same as PFer, but I guess I can say that problem does exist because of some sexist comments. Maybe they're just joking but how on earth they usually don't make jokes in favor of canibalism!

I really hope you don't still think it's a waste of time.

I do think that way as long as my threads go off topic here and people just try to make fun of everything all the time!
It's been for a long time that I've got that idea but I still bother posting here because there are some poster here that I find their comments very insightful and helpful. However i'm not gonna waste mt time with some kiddies even because of them!

Monochrome

Men also pass on an X chromosome to their daughters. And Moonbear isn't agreeing with you.

Gah, I don't know why I can't seem to get this across it all works out nicely. The Y chromosome is only passed from male to male, while the X chromosome is passed randomly from male to male or female. As females are pickier than males when it comes to choosing mates Y chromosomes on average are specifically selected twice as frequently as their accompanying X chromosome for giving a man an advantage over other males when it comes to attracting mates, which in humans mean being stronger, smarter and healthier. The whole population would gain from a beneficial mutation occurs in X while only males would do so from a beneficial mutation in Y which are equally as like to happen. Actually more so since the Y chromosome lacks the ability to repair itself. Also because of this higher screening any negative mutation in Y is removed quicker due to mate selection by females and/or inability to reproduce.

But look where his decendants are today.

Everywhere from China to Hungary?

And then there is an Irish king who may have several million descendants.

Another prodigal reproducer, do you not think that he has influenced the gene pool to a much greater extent than one following the strategy of guarding ones children?

Those who think they are superior, are not.

Superior is a human concept, I am talking about a gene which by the way it is selected must give extra benefits to those who have it. It just happens that in a capitalist society those who possess it are rewarded greatly. Much the same way as those who possessed the genes for blue eyes were rewarded by previous societies.

Lisa!

Well cyrus I just didn't want to reply to any of your posts, since I guess the only point of your posts is botheringsome of the people around and making jokes, but well I do it for the last time anyway. I mean if you're going to be that way, I'll just ignore you like all people who I just don't care about their comments and prefer to ignnore. 1st of all it's sorta narrowmindedness to think all things I'm cooncerned about is because of where I live and sometimes I find your comments as backwarded as uneducated people who I don't usually face them in real life but I know enough of them. I guess you just play thatrole deliberately but that doean't change anything. and no don't take what I said as an insult!

Quote by cyrusabdollahi

Iran's culture is much older. (Ok, I'm just yanking your chain on that one

). Iran does have a long and old history and culture, that's certainly true. And women were a part of that culture.

And they still can be...

Let's not blame the Arabs for Iran's own choice of actions.

Not going to blame anyone for others' actions, however you have to admit that that's been a very important role on our current situation.

Yes, long ago. But not anymore.

We're doing our best to take that greatness bac. Well I guess this kinda help and support of Iranian decade living in western country is very heartworming!

Don't compare what some people say on a forum to the general society. Generally speaking, the status of women in Iran is no where near the same as that of women in western society.

Ya, that's right. Since I have to put on skarf in public I'm missing alot. Well I guess when I travel to western country again I have to give uo my scraf since Muslims known as terrorists there!

well I do admit lots of attempts have been done in western countries to support women's rights, but however I think they're falling from the other side of wall. I mean somehoe they're violating men's rights. I think women in Iran are going to have a better situation than before, but the problem in most cases is THEMSELVES. We shouldn't expect men to fight for our rights we should do it ourselves. Anyhow I grow up in a very bright family and sorta haven't experiensed the majority of problems an Iranian woman can have in Iran!

Look, let's not kid ourselves, you live in a very repressed society. What do you honestly expect from people living in such conditions?

The important thing is the way I consider the world's issues although I live in a repressed country and even a person who lives in a modern country might not have that view.

The last time I was in Iran, everyone looked miserable. The cities are underdeveloped and there are alot of poor people. If I didn’t have family there, I wouldn't visit. There's nothing to do there or see, it's a sad sight. (And too many people there are smoking drugs all the time

).

Well I don't know how many years ago did you travel there.

Why dont you look through this list and then tell me Iranian society is on the same level as the rest of the world....

I never said that!

They don't even let men and women enter through the same door Lisa............... stop kidding yourself.

And you stop going off topic. People here admit that sexism does exist in western even if it doesn't people here can help me know how to get rid of that. But the whole points of your posts seems to make me angry. what did you want to do if I hadn't told you about my nationality? And also I didn't want you to speak about my nationality in almost very thread since I know people would simply think the way you do! most of people don't bother thinking on a topic deeply they simply like to generalze, or judge people's not ideas. They've made up their mind before the discussion and that's what I call narrowmindedness!

Evo

Quote by Lisa!

Not a good excuse! Evo is a mentor and she shouldn't let a thread goes off topic especially if the OP doesn't want it. know she was just playing around, but that's not good to join a kiddie and do that. Just because I'm easy going about people's comments through my thread or on me, doesn't mean mentor should let them doing that!

I was just trying to cheer you up. kiddie=cyrus? You're mad at cyrus?

Danger

Quote by Lisa!

what did you want to do if I hadn't told you about my nationality?

I meant to ask you about that. You told me that it wasn't to be mentioned in public. When did you 'out' yourself?

Math Is Hard

Quote by Evo

I was just trying to cheer you up. kiddie=cyrus? You're mad at cyrus?

Me, too, Lisa! I was just trying to lighten things up. Sorry if I made you mad.

However, I don't think Cyrus was really off-topic when he suggested that your perspective is somewhat influenced by your environment. Isn't that the case for all of us?

Cyrus

Quote by Evo

I was just trying to cheer you up. kiddie=cyrus? You're mad at cyrus?

Iranians show their love through hate

Lisa!

Quote by Evo

I was just trying to cheer you up.

Thanks! I guess I was too hatsh on that but that's because I wanted to have serious discussion and no I wasn't depressed at all. I hope you don't get offended by what I said but that was very unexpected for me that somehow your post was sorta in agreement with cyrus. I mean we only try to save people from a bad situation.

kiddie=cyrus? You're mad at cyrus?

Not mad at him. I just don't like him posting through my threads and makees my threads off topic. I tried to ignore him this time and I expected other helping me not leeting thhis thread go off topic

Quote by Danger

I meant to ask you about that. You told me that it wasn't to be mentioned in public. When did you 'out' yourself?

I just let others know I speak persian long time ago! Well I knew I'd have this sorta problems through my threads by revealing that!

Quote by Math Is Hard

Me, too, Lisa! I was just trying to lighten things up. Sorry if I made you mad.

I apologize as well. Today I was too tired and too irritable. You know when I'm tired I just get angry at people for any silly reason like saying hello to me.

However, I don't think Cyrus was really off-topic when he suggested that your perspective is somewhat influenced by your environment. Isn't that the case for all of us?

That depends what you mean by environment. I told you I still have to know about the problem of women in Iran. Most of women's rights here are violated by their families and in some cases it depends on which city you live.
His post is off topic IMP, because I get from his tone that he just wants to annoy me.(he wasn't successful till the saving me from Iran case) Honestly I don't think he wanted to help here.

*darius*

When it comes to Math and Physics so far, men do rule, although women have made contributions. The question is not whether women can do Math and Physics, but rather do they want to? Perhaps they have other priorities than sitting around solving Math problems. There is always a man to do that. Who could blame them?

Math Is Hard

Quote by darius

When it comes to Physics and Mathematics, men do rule, although women have made contributions. It is not that women cannot make great contributions, but rather do they really want to?

It hasn't been all that long that women have even been allowed to make contributions. For a very long time, universities were very resistant to the idea of admitting women. How could a woman gain the necessary knowledge and credentials to contribute without an education?

Perhaps they have better things to do. And what is wrong with being pampered?

Heck, nothing. I never met a man or a woman who didn't enjoy that!

I do not blame them for not wanting to sit around solving math problems when they have other priorities.

The women I work with are all programmers who spend most of their time developing financial systems. Essentially, they sit around solving math problems all day because it is their priority. And because they enjoy it.

Aether

Quote by Lisa!

what did you want to do if I hadn't told you about my nationality? And also I didn't want you to speak about my nationality in almost very thread since I know people would simply think the way you do!

I didn't know your nationality before this. I think that having you here at PF is even more special than before.

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scott1	26.5 post a day so far this thread more then franzbear...

Bladibla	I think that women can be friendly, and are necessary, but not for 96.8% of the women population.

darius	When it comes to Math and Physics so far, men do rule, although women have made contributions. The question is not whether women can do Math and Physics, but rather do they want to? Perhaps they have other priorities than sitting around solving Math problems. There is always a man to do that. Who could blame them?