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Question of the universe?

by unscientific
Tags: universe
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Aug21-06, 04:47 AM
P: 44
Nothing is nothing and nothing does not exist are one and the same my friend. First you must accept nothing for what it is to see the unison between the two statements. Large flashy words are pretty to look at, but that's about it when it comes to defending a fallacy.
Gelsamel Epsilon
Aug21-06, 04:59 AM
P: 316
Obviously we have different interpretations of the phrases.

So to say "Nothing is Nothing" is to say that Something that has no existance, has no existance. Which again is tautology.

To say "Nothing does not exist" is to say Nothing itself (the concept) is non-existant. If the Nothing truely does not exist then it is silly to argue over something that isn't real and doesn't exist. Why are you arguing about it?
Aug21-06, 05:01 AM
P: 44
No, you do not understand what nothing is. I cannot converse with a mind that submits to existential mediocrity. You are arguing my friend, I'm asking you to stop, and to accept. The entire world is arguing over it. Stop and accept that we are already here. I must take a break now while you try to think about nothing. Perhaps then you'll comprehend it's true value.

To say nothing is nothing is to say that red is red... it is that it is, or in this case, it is not so that it is not.

Yes, the concept IS non-existent, and it should be erased from the face of the Earth.
Aug21-06, 06:34 AM
P: 1,107
However, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. I have come to believe that most adults, take the world just as it is. They never dare to explore beyond the limits, the study of how " everything " began. They just sit in their sofa, be a couch potato, and take everything as it seems!
Aug21-06, 06:36 AM
P: 94
Quote Quote by unscientific
How can we be created out of nothing, lets say our parents created us, our grandparents created my parents so on and so forth.

Some say the universe is created by the big bang. Then what created the big bang? What created what? (<---i know this seems but think about it; it makes sense)

Any opinion would be greatly appreciated.
I thought that I'd take a stab it this since you asked the question. You make an assumption that if you accept the Big Bang, one must accept that the universe was created. This would be a correct assumption from my vantage point. You then further postulate that the universe was created out of nothing. I would concur here also. If this is all correct, them we are forced to assume that the universe is made of nothing.

Further examination of this leads to - The universe is not a physical entity. This leaves you with conceptual creation, and what is that you might ask? To get to the crux of this I would ask you to think of a fundamental entity (the simplest form of existence). What are the characteristics of this form? We must conclude that within this simplest of forms is nothing indeed for there are no parts to fundamentality. This is in concurence with the initial postulate that the universe is made of nothing. What does pass for Existence is the form. It has no physical characteristics other than the concept of it's phisicallity, and this form acts in accordance with what are called physical laws. I would prefer to call these conceptual laws, but most everyone is still in the mindset that the universe is a physical entity.
Aug21-06, 06:46 AM
P: 44
Ah, yes! And the fact that they are conceptual laws lends them flexibility. :) All things are possible. Speed of light barrier? More like, human ignorance and vanity barrier.
Aug21-06, 06:46 AM
P: 1,107
A greek philosopher who lived more than 2 thousand years ago believed that philosophy had its origin in man's sense of wonder. Man thought it was so astonishingto be alive that philosophical questions like this arose of their own accord. It is like watching a magic tric. We cannot understand how it is done. So we ask: how can the magician change a couple of white silk scarves into a live rabbit? In the case of the rabbit, we know the magician has tricked us. What we would like to know is just how he did it. But when it comes to the world it's somewhat different. We know that the world is not all sleight of hand and deception because here we are in it, we are part of it. ( This is part of topos theory ) Actually, we are the white rabbit being pulled out of the hat. The only difference is that the rabbit does not realise itself to be taking part in a magic trick. We, who live here are microscopic insects existing deep down in the rabbit's fur. But philosophers are always trying to climb up the fine hairs of the fur in order to stare right into the magician's eyes...Life is a huge mystery and so to solve it, we need to explore it. With a problem and a spark of curiosity, awaits us is a mystical event. The world itself becomes a habit in no time at all. It seems as if in the process of growing up we lose the ability to wonder about the world. Questions that used to stumble inquisitive kids like " Where does the world come from? " " Why can birds fly but not pigs? " Therefore, we need to question! we need to challenge ourselves! What is the purpose of living? For me, it is to explain the mysteries in life and have a better understanding of live.
P.S. Sorry for the long post, i hope this post is meaningful, especially towards Outlandish_Existence. I recommend u the book " Sophie's World ", by Jostein Gaarder.
Aug21-06, 06:53 AM
P: 44
Thank you very much, thank you also for the recommendation! The majority of us lose our inquisitive capabilties because mediocrities tell us to stop questioning... to the extent that all answers are already known and in place. This is hardly true, the human race knows little about existence. I'm here trying to vastly elucidate on a few minor misconceptions before I commence on a larger enterprise. It seems as if this magician has slipped me a pink 2X2 sticky note with some of the answers on it, but he's yet to reveal his face and identity to me. I think it is the way that he prefers it. He'll show you his hands of creation, but will always keep his face masked. :)
Aug21-06, 06:54 AM
P: 94
Quote Quote by Outlandish_Existence
Ah, yes! And the fact that they are conceptual laws lends them flexibility. :) All things are possible. Speed of light barrier? More like, human ignorance and ego barrier.
Light happens to be the fundamental entity, and it has a speed limit. I could explain this further but to you. Your condescending attitude makes it difficult at best.
Aug21-06, 07:02 AM
P: 44
I didn't say limit! I stated barrier. Thank you for the kind insult. Save your energy of assumption, I am familiar with physics. I could explain this further to you, but your condescending attitude makes it difficult at best.
Aug21-06, 07:17 AM
P: 210
Quote Quote by Outlandish_Existence
They exist in your imagination. If it exists in your imagination then it can be manifested into fruition. All one has to do is believe. Existence is of the imagination. Non-existence cannot be imagined, therefore it cannot and will not exist.

Stop trying to win, and start understanding truth. I'm not here to battle, I'm here to share.

There is no logical proof requiring presentation. The proof is you and I, now must come acceptance. I will wait no longer for humanity to wisen up.
I'm imagining that you don't exist. Oh yes, it's quite nice.
Aug21-06, 08:11 AM
P: 44
That's quite an elusive imagination, sorry to stump the non-existence of me.
Aug21-06, 02:14 PM
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P: 1,593
Quote Quote by unscientific
Any opinion would be greatly appreciated.
Our Universe is massively non-linear. Some non-linear systems have "critical points" which qualitatively change the behavior of the system when it's pushed pass this critical point. Look up "Catastrophe Theory" on the web. Think of water changing to ice at zero C. Know the talk about Global Warming and the "tipping point"? Tons more all around us. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to suppose the Universe itself was created by such a "nudge" of some "pre-existance" pass it's critical point: The Universe, from such a perspective, then precipitates out of a critical point transition of a pre-existance.
Aug22-06, 03:08 AM
P: 1,107
A question that requires thinking. What is the " original temperature " of an object? Most people would reply with a vague answer stating the current room temperature. Have u ever wondered what is the " original " temperature of an object? And does water turn to ice at 0 degrees or melt at 0 degrees?
Gelsamel Epsilon
Aug22-06, 05:57 AM
P: 316
The original temperature is what ever you want it to be. Just like in special rel. you set the frame you want to be looking from. And with gravitational potential energy you choose the most logical 0-point.
Aug27-06, 06:04 AM
P: 5
Sorry to come to the conversation so late. I was bored and googled for philosophy and found this cool site.

What created the big bang? I have been reading a lot on string theory and found a great site with no reading required to get started:

(I like videos)

Ok - so lets say string theory is real and strings in the 10th dimension caused the 4 dimensions we know of to come into existance. It still doesn't really answer the essence of the question. Where did the strings come from?

The question will just get deeper and deeper, but its the same question. What created the first thing?

Even the God answer doesn't solve it... Ok - lets say God created the first thing. Then God becomes the first thing, so what created God?

Its a great question and one that I don't think we will ever be able to answer unless we can accept that something has always been there.
Aug27-06, 05:49 PM
P: 94
What created the first thing?
From my deep look into this - The answer would be nothing.
Sep1-06, 01:13 AM
P: 533
Quote Quote by unscientific
I have come to believe that most adults, take the world just as it is. They never dare to explore beyond the limits, the study of how " everything " began. They just sit in their sofa, be a couch potato, and take everything as it seems!
I agree with the feeling you convey. I believe everybody comprehends this topic though, and they also agree with you and think that most people don't think about it.

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