Proven - Life After Death


by Messiah
Tags: death, life, proven
Messiah
Messiah is offline
#1
Apr20-03, 11:16 AM
P: 155
Given -
Life is a state of being (specifically - not being dead)
Death is a state of being (specifically - not being alive)

You are alive now (I hope - else how are you reading this?)
150 years ago, you were dead (Unless you are VERY old - in which case you probably CAN'T read this anyway)

Dead then. Alive now.

Any questions?
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FZ+
FZ+ is offline
#2
Apr20-03, 11:48 AM
FZ+'s Avatar
P: 1,954
Heh. True.

But is the potential of being alive in the future really irrelevant? Ie, are you dead before, or just waiting to be alive?
Bellatrix
#3
Apr20-03, 11:49 AM
P: n/a
Originally posted by Messiah
Given -
Life is a state of being (specifically - not being dead)
Death is a state of being (specifically - not being alive)....

.... Dead then. Alive now.

Hi Messiah. I agree in the context of physical life on this planet. All physical life dies. However, I believe that the part of us who we really our, our soul, or higher self, is eternal and lives many different lives here on this planet, in many different historical settings and characters, in addition to lives in dimensions very foreign to this physical life we know, simultaneously. On different levels of awareness. For instance, have you ever wondered where that very strange craving for a particular kind of food comes from? Or, what's up with smelling perfume, or turkey dinner in your living room where you know those scents don't exist. Yet, they are very strong for a few moments, then disappear. What about those strange dreams you have visiting a specific place that you don't know of in waking hours, yet is a very vivid place with relationships in your dreams?

Just some food for thought. [a)]

Messiah
Messiah is offline
#4
Apr20-03, 12:31 PM
P: 155

Proven - Life After Death


Originally posted by Bellatrix
Hi Messiah. I agree in the context of physical life on this planet. All physical life dies. However, I believe that the part of us who we really our, our soul, or higher self, is eternal and lives many different lives here on this planet, in many different historical settings and characters, in addition to lives in dimensions very foreign to this physical life we know, simultaneously. On different levels of awareness. For instance, have you ever wondered where that very strange craving for a particular kind of food comes from? Or, what's up with smelling perfume, or turkey dinner in your living room where you know those scents don't exist. Yet, they are very strong for a few moments, then disappear. What about those strange dreams you have visiting a specific place that you don't know of in waking hours, yet is a very vivid place with relationships in your dreams?

Just some food for thought. [a)]
"Cogito ergo sum.". I think, therefore I am.

One must exist in order to experience, and the fact that you experience is convincing proof you exist.

It is not possible to Ďbeí more than - or less than - a single entity. Multiple entities cannot share a single identity any more than they can simultaneously occupy the same space. The field of being from one entity to another is discontinuous. The domain of each entity stops at the boundary where the domain of the other begins. If the body is a composite arrangement of cells, molecules and atoms which are comprised of elemental particles, and if you can only be a single element, it must be logically concluded that you are an element of existence concealed within the assemblage of your body - a life entity - something called a soul.
Messiah
Messiah is offline
#5
Apr20-03, 12:34 PM
P: 155
Originally posted by FZ+
Heh. True.

But is the potential of being alive in the future really irrelevant? Ie, are you dead before, or just waiting to be alive?
Do the dead fear life as much as the living fear death?
Bellatrix
#6
Apr20-03, 01:29 PM
P: n/a
Originally posted by Messiah
"Cogito ergo sum.". I think, therefore I am.

One must exist in order to experience, and the fact that you experience is convincing proof you exist.

It is not possible to Ďbeí more than - or less than - a single entity. Multiple entities cannot share a single identity any more than they can simultaneously occupy the same space. The field of being from one entity to another is discontinuous. The domain of each entity stops at the boundary where the domain of the other begins. If the body is a composite arrangement of cells, molecules and atoms which are comprised of elemental particles, and if you can only be a single element, it must be logically concluded that you are an element of existence concealed within the assemblage of your body - a life entity - something called a soul.
Hi Messiah. ThankYou for your reply. I agree with your belief that multiple entities cannot share a single identity any more than they can simultaneously occupy the same space. . I am speaking to the multi-dimensional identities of the soul, one of which you are consciously aware of as we speak. The other identities of your soul, or higher self, exist in other realities, physical or otherwise, outside of the illusion of time.

In other words, does your body create the soul or does it exist because of the souls desire to exist and experience the life you have??
kyle_soule
kyle_soule is offline
#7
Apr20-03, 06:00 PM
kyle_soule's Avatar
P: 293
I agree with FZ+ on this, I don't think you are dead before you are alive, and to back this up one would go to the definition of death:


death Pronunciation Key (dth)
n.
1. The act of dying; termination of life.
2. The state of being dead.
3. The cause of dying: Drugs were the death of him.
4. A manner of dying: a heroine's death.
often Death A personification of the destroyer of life, usually represented as a skeleton holding a scythe.


In the first definition we find the phrase termination of life. I apoligize, but I'm also going to post the definition for termination:

....
1) The end of something in time; the conclusion.
2) An end of something in space; a limit or edge.
3) A result; an outcome.

OK, we find that termination implies the terminating thing has to have been experienced or in existence beforehand. A person, before life, is not exactly dead, because they would first have to have life. Also, the reverse of the situation you described doesn't necessarily imply you also have the literal meaning of life after death, as in, you were born, you die, you live again.

Hi Messiah. I agree in the context of physical life on this planet. All physical life dies. However, I believe that the part of us who we really our, our soul, or higher self, is eternal and lives many different lives here on this planet, in many different historical settings and characters, in addition to lives in dimensions very foreign to this physical life we know, simultaneously. On different levels of awareness. For instance, have you ever wondered where that very strange craving for a particular kind of food comes from? Or, what's up with smelling perfume, or turkey dinner in your living room where you know those scents don't exist. Yet, they are very strong for a few moments, then disappear. What about those strange dreams you have visiting a specific place that you don't know of in waking hours, yet is a very vivid place with relationships in your dreams?

Just some food for thought.
All those memories are stored in the brain. The brain can recall smells, tastes as memories similar to how it can recall what you did last night. Also, multiple dimiensions, etc are just theorized, I wouldn't put too much into their existence. You could think of the dreams as your ability to imagine places you have never seen or imagined before, it is quiet easy. The way of thinking that involves memories of past lives or other lives seems too much like once we die we go to a blank room and wait to be chosen to live again and before we are chosen we have a quick format of our brains, but its not an entire erasing so we still remember some things of past lives, seems a little crazy.
Messiah
Messiah is offline
#8
Apr20-03, 08:16 PM
P: 155
Originally posted by Bellatrix
Hi Messiah. ThankYou for your reply. I agree with your belief that multiple entities cannot share a single identity any more than they can simultaneously occupy the same space. . I am speaking to the multi-dimensional identities of the soul, one of which you are consciously aware of as we speak. The other identities of your soul, or higher self, exist in other realities, physical or otherwise, outside of the illusion of time.

In other words, does your body create the soul or does it exist because of the souls desire to exist and experience the life you have??
From planetary systems to atomic structure, nuclei are common to the macrocosm and microcosm. It seems logical that during life, the nucleus of the soul would reside in the brain - spinning fine threads of itself throughout the nervous system where it monitors every portion of the body except for the hair, nails and other anatomy where nerves do not reside. As an entity reacts to stimulus, it reconfigures itself to accommodate the event. The path of any change in condition would certainly affect the nucleus, producing a coherent experience shared by every part of the entity. When filtered through the processes of the body, it precipitates a synergistic body-soul phenomenon called thought.

Life is no chemical accident. It arose as a spectrum of life entities learned to manipulate the resources of this planet - wear the mud. Unfortunately, that mud conceals us rather well and although we have (hopefully) developed a level of consciousness slightly more sophisticated than the amoebae, we still have not been able to isolate and identify that element within the human body which compiles and compels it - the soul.

Life and death are transient states of being - probably cyclical in nature. Existence is eternal.

You don't HAVE a soul. You ARE a soul. You HAVE a body, but you are NOT a body...a body is simply a collection of elements.
Bellatrix
#9
Apr21-03, 01:20 AM
P: n/a
Originally posted by Messiah
..... Existence is eternal.

You don't HAVE a soul. You ARE a soul. You HAVE a body, but you are NOT a body...a body is simply a collection of elements.
Hi Messiah. I respectfully disagree with most of what you said, however, I will say that I agree with the above. That "you ARE a soul. You HAVE a body... a body is simply a collection of elements." and that your soul has created your body to experience life in the physical. Existence is eternal as is the soul.
Messiah
Messiah is offline
#10
Apr21-03, 08:01 PM
P: 155
Originally posted by Bellatrix
Hi Messiah. I respectfully disagree with most of what you said, however, I will say that I agree with the above. That "you ARE a soul. You HAVE a body... a body is simply a collection of elements." and that your soul has created your body to experience life in the physical. Existence is eternal as is the soul.
Eternal - both foreward and backward in time?
Bellatrix
#11
Apr21-03, 09:07 PM
P: n/a
Originally posted by Messiah
Eternal - both foreward and backward in time?
:-) Time and space is simply one plane of existence. Eternity is outside of time and space, without beginning or end. It simply is.
quantumcarl
quantumcarl is offline
#12
Apr22-03, 02:07 AM
P: 903
Originally posted by Bellatrix
:-) Time and space is simply one plane of existence. Eternity is outside of time and space, without beginning or end. It simply is.
Yes, like a rock (which knows of neither time nor space as far as we know)

A rock, having never lived, cannot be termed as a dead thing. Nor a live one. Not until it combines with many other kinds of minerals. Then it begins to form a living organism... which dies... or returns to the condition of neither alive nor dead.

Where did the rock come from?
It came from a sun.
Where did the sun come from?
A collection of gases.
Where did the gases come from?
A big bang.
Where did a big bang come from?
The potential for a big bang.
What is the potential for a big bang?
No big bang.

Therefore the idea of death is the potential for a life. And the idea of life is the potential for a death.

This may explain why many people have a fear of life or living. Because, as soon as they acknowledge life... they have to acknowledge death. And it is well known that many people fear death.

In fact many people fear both life and death. They are caught between a rock and a hardhat. Sad, actually.
Bellatrix
#13
Apr22-03, 11:18 AM
P: n/a
Originally posted by quantumcarl


.....This may explain why many people have a fear of life or living. Because, as soon as they acknowledge life... they have to acknowledge death. And it is well known that many people fear death.

In fact many people fear both life and death. They are caught between a rock and a hardhat. Sad, actually.
Yes, very sad. But hey, I see you peeked at me dancing.:-)
quantumcarl
quantumcarl is offline
#14
Apr22-03, 02:36 PM
P: 903
Originally posted by Bellatrix
Yes, very sad. But hey, I see you peeked at me dancing.:-)
Not.

But, I did peek at your stats page on 21/04/03. You had all my contact and stats data posted there. Very juvenile and deliquent of you.

Thank you for removing my stats from your stats/contact page and concocting a life of your own.
Bellatrix
#15
Apr22-03, 04:11 PM
P: n/a
Originally posted by quantumcarl
Not.

But, I did peek at your stats page on 21/04/03. You had all my contact and stats data posted there. Very juvenile and deliquent of you.

Thank you for removing my stats from your stats/contact page and concocting a life of your own.

No intrusion was intended, if fact, I don't even know where the stats contact page is, and I have no idea how to post your contact/stats data ??? I apologize for any perceived intrusion, it wasn't intended. The comment I made about peeking at the dancing, was simply a commentary on your new .gif. That's all.

Peace
Bellatrix
#16
Apr22-03, 04:21 PM
P: n/a
Anyone's help would be greatly appreciated. It seems I have inadvertantly tread on the privacy of another member here. Could anyone kindly educate me about a "stats page" , how to get to it, what's it all about etc?

Thank you.
Bellatrix
#17
Apr22-03, 07:13 PM
P: n/a
Originally posted by kyle_soule
I agree with FZ+ on this, I don't think you are dead before you are alive, and to back this up one would go to the definition of death: ............



Hi Kylie. Thank you for your reply. Sorry for the delay in replying to your post. I wanted to think about what you said before responding.

I will assume that you are speaking about physical life and death. Physical death is inevitable, but that part of you that you identify with as ďI amĒ is always alive, eternal, transitioning into and out of physical life, silumtaeously. If you were to die today, you would step away from your body and wonder for a while what happened and why doesnít anyone acknowledge you from your life.The way you feel exactly at this moment is how you would feel when your body dies, except freer. Freer from physical restriction and more aware of a greater reality than what you knew in your physical life. Being aware of more than your life is disorienting and somewhat unvelievable while you are still here pondering the possibilites.

The multi-dimensional insít theory for me. I have read othersí experiences and observations about multi-dimesions, but this information only serves to identify thougths and feelings and experiences that Iíve had that I havenít previously been able to distinguish and identify with a name or description. It is an exercise of recognition.

The memories I was speaking about are many times smelled by others at the same time. Mass memory recall may be possible, and I might assume that all of us who smell that same smell have a life experience together in another dimension of reality. hmmm, more food for thought.

Iíve always thought it exhilerating that we are eternal souls, exploring and creating lives and experiences throughout creation. We each choose our own new lives and experiences, our choice, not chosen. I can see how it could be a little scarey, itís a very BIG idea to wrap your mind around. I get the same kind of scarey feeling in big wide open spaces in the country and mountains. It takes a little getting used to, but once you get beyond the fear, there is infinite fun and joy in the freedom and the discovery.

[a)] May the Force be with you.
Messiah
Messiah is offline
#18
Apr25-03, 09:18 PM
P: 155
Originally posted by Bellatrix
Hi Kylie. Thank you for your reply. Sorry for the delay in replying to your post. I wanted to think about what you said before responding.

I will assume that you are speaking about physical life and death. Physical death is inevitable, but that part of you that you identify with as ďI amĒ is always alive, eternal, transitioning into and out of physical life, silumtaeously. If you were to die today, you would step away from your body and wonder for a while what happened and why doesnít anyone acknowledge you from your life.The way you feel exactly at this moment is how you would feel when your body dies, except freer. Freer from physical restriction and more aware of a greater reality than what you knew in your physical life. Being aware of more than your life is disorienting and somewhat unvelievable while you are still here pondering the possibilites.

The multi-dimensional insít theory for me. I have read othersí experiences and observations about multi-dimesions, but this information only serves to identify thougths and feelings and experiences that Iíve had that I havenít previously been able to distinguish and identify with a name or description. It is an exercise of recognition.

The memories I was speaking about are many times smelled by others at the same time. Mass memory recall may be possible, and I might assume that all of us who smell that same smell have a life experience together in another dimension of reality. hmmm, more food for thought.

Iíve always thought it exhilerating that we are eternal souls, exploring and creating lives and experiences throughout creation. We each choose our own new lives and experiences, our choice, not chosen. I can see how it could be a little scarey, itís a very BIG idea to wrap your mind around. I get the same kind of scarey feeling in big wide open spaces in the country and mountains. It takes a little getting used to, but once you get beyond the fear, there is infinite fun and joy in the freedom and the discovery.

[a)] May the Force be with you.
[8)] Yeah ! !
Where were you during the BigBang event. Where will you be when the Sun supernovas?

Boggles the mind, doesn't it.
Were we water based life forms a trillion years ago.
Crystal based? Gas?

Thinkaboutit.


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