Re: Pioneer 10 looks like red shift, not blue


by franklinhu@yahoo.com
Tags: blue, pioneer, shift
OmegaNumber
#37
Oct12-06, 05:10 AM
P: n/a
Hero wrote:

> Blue shift- that means Pioneer is coming back ?
> Hero


Not quite :j

Spud

OmegaNumber
#38
Oct12-06, 05:10 AM
P: n/a
Hero wrote:

> Blue shift- that means Pioneer is coming back ?
> Hero


Not quite :j

Spud

OmegaNumber
#39
Oct12-06, 05:10 AM
P: n/a
Hero wrote:

> Blue shift- that means Pioneer is coming back ?
> Hero


Not quite :j

Spud

OmegaNumber
#40
Oct12-06, 05:10 AM
P: n/a
Hero wrote:

> Blue shift- that means Pioneer is coming back ?
> Hero


Not quite :j

Spud

OmegaNumber
#41
Oct12-06, 05:10 AM
P: n/a
Hero wrote:

> Blue shift- that means Pioneer is coming back ?
> Hero


Not quite :j

Spud

OmegaNumber
#42
Oct12-06, 05:10 AM
P: n/a
Hero wrote:

> Blue shift- that means Pioneer is coming back ?
> Hero


Not quite :j

Spud

OmegaNumber
#43
Oct12-06, 05:10 AM
P: n/a
Hero wrote:

> Blue shift- that means Pioneer is coming back ?
> Hero


Not quite :j

Spud

OmegaNumber
#44
Oct12-06, 05:10 AM
P: n/a
Hero wrote:

> Blue shift- that means Pioneer is coming back ?
> Hero


Not quite :j

Spud

OmegaNumber
#45
Oct12-06, 05:10 AM
P: n/a
Hero wrote:

> Blue shift- that means Pioneer is coming back ?
> Hero


Not quite :j

Spud

cmaj10@yahoo.com
#46
Oct12-06, 05:10 AM
P: n/a
Hero.van.Jindelt@gmx.de wrote:
> George Dishman wrote:
> > <franklinhu@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:1129959719.689733.278730@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > >
> > > John C. Polasek wrote:
> > >> The Pioneer 10 anomaly is a problem that is far from settled, but the
> > >> question of red shift or blue shift remains. I try to show that the
> > >> phenomenon is a red shift, acceleration away from the sun. This is a
> > >> matter that should be cleared up.

> > John is wrong it is a blue shift. Look at the graph showing the
> > sum of the anomaly and the solar radiation pressure. Solar
> > radiation pushes the craft away from the sun adding a red shift,
> > but the total of that and the anomaly goes through zero showing
> > the anomaly is a blue shift. This was also confirmed by Craig
> > Markwardt who re-analysed the data from scratch and found the
> > same result, the frequency is higher than expected.
> >
> > > If anybody has a comparison of Pioneer 10 red-shift compared to
> > > galactic red-shift caused by the expansion of the universe, that would
> > > be interesting to see.

> >
> > This was done to death in the group a few years ago...

> Blue shift- that means Pioneer is coming back ?
> Hero


No, it's a tiny unexpected blue shift added to the much bigger expected
red shift. So the net result is still a red shift, the Pioneers are not
coming back. The blue shift is said to be "unmodeled".

Chris

Hero.van.Jindelt@gmx.de
#47
Oct12-06, 05:11 AM
P: n/a

Dishman wrote:
> Hero.van.Jindelt@gmx.de wrote:
> > George Dishman wrote:
> > > ... the anomaly is a blue shift. This was also confirmed by Craig
> > > Markwardt who re-analysed the data from scratch and found the
> > > same result, the frequency is higher than expected.

>
> > Blue shift- that means Pioneer is coming back ?

>
> The anomaly is a blue shift. It suggests the craft is being
> slowed with constant acceleration. The cumulative loss of
> speed was around 100 mm/s over 8 years.
>
> Overall, the shift is mostly red. The craft is leaving the
> Solar system at about 12 km/s but the Earth's speed in orbit
> is around 30 km/s so when we are moving towards it the shift
> is blue (for about 19 weeks, up to 18 km/s) and when Earth is
> moving the other way it is red (up to 42 km/s).
>
> George

Thanks George, i've got it. So, when observed, when earth is at right
angles moving with respect to the movement of pioneer one observes a
red-shift. But not as much as could be expected from the formulas of a
hyperbolic orbit.
But observing it at right angles, this opportunity comes twice a year
and there's a difference between these two, it is a length of ca. 14
lightminutes= 2 astronimical units in between and this is filled with
lots of radiation from the sun. This should show up in the observation
of shift, shouldn't it ?
Thanks
Hero


Hero.van.Jindelt@gmx.de
#48
Oct12-06, 05:11 AM
P: n/a

Dishman wrote:
> Hero.van.Jindelt@gmx.de wrote:
> > George Dishman wrote:
> > > ... the anomaly is a blue shift. This was also confirmed by Craig
> > > Markwardt who re-analysed the data from scratch and found the
> > > same result, the frequency is higher than expected.

>
> > Blue shift- that means Pioneer is coming back ?

>
> The anomaly is a blue shift. It suggests the craft is being
> slowed with constant acceleration. The cumulative loss of
> speed was around 100 mm/s over 8 years.
>
> Overall, the shift is mostly red. The craft is leaving the
> Solar system at about 12 km/s but the Earth's speed in orbit
> is around 30 km/s so when we are moving towards it the shift
> is blue (for about 19 weeks, up to 18 km/s) and when Earth is
> moving the other way it is red (up to 42 km/s).
>
> George

Thanks George, i've got it. So, when observed, when earth is at right
angles moving with respect to the movement of pioneer one observes a
red-shift. But not as much as could be expected from the formulas of a
hyperbolic orbit.
But observing it at right angles, this opportunity comes twice a year
and there's a difference between these two, it is a length of ca. 14
lightminutes= 2 astronimical units in between and this is filled with
lots of radiation from the sun. This should show up in the observation
of shift, shouldn't it ?
Thanks
Hero

Hero.van.Jindelt@gmx.de
#49
Oct12-06, 05:11 AM
P: n/a

Dishman wrote:
> Hero.van.Jindelt@gmx.de wrote:
> > George Dishman wrote:
> > > ... the anomaly is a blue shift. This was also confirmed by Craig
> > > Markwardt who re-analysed the data from scratch and found the
> > > same result, the frequency is higher than expected.

>
> > Blue shift- that means Pioneer is coming back ?

>
> The anomaly is a blue shift. It suggests the craft is being
> slowed with constant acceleration. The cumulative loss of
> speed was around 100 mm/s over 8 years.
>
> Overall, the shift is mostly red. The craft is leaving the
> Solar system at about 12 km/s but the Earth's speed in orbit
> is around 30 km/s so when we are moving towards it the shift
> is blue (for about 19 weeks, up to 18 km/s) and when Earth is
> moving the other way it is red (up to 42 km/s).
>
> George

Thanks George, i've got it. So, when observed, when earth is at right
angles moving with respect to the movement of pioneer one observes a
red-shift. But not as much as could be expected from the formulas of a
hyperbolic orbit.
But observing it at right angles, this opportunity comes twice a year
and there's a difference between these two, it is a length of ca. 14
lightminutes= 2 astronimical units in between and this is filled with
lots of radiation from the sun. This should show up in the observation
of shift, shouldn't it ?
Thanks
Hero

Hero.van.Jindelt@gmx.de
#50
Oct12-06, 05:11 AM
P: n/a

Dishman wrote:
> Hero.van.Jindelt@gmx.de wrote:
> > George Dishman wrote:
> > > ... the anomaly is a blue shift. This was also confirmed by Craig
> > > Markwardt who re-analysed the data from scratch and found the
> > > same result, the frequency is higher than expected.

>
> > Blue shift- that means Pioneer is coming back ?

>
> The anomaly is a blue shift. It suggests the craft is being
> slowed with constant acceleration. The cumulative loss of
> speed was around 100 mm/s over 8 years.
>
> Overall, the shift is mostly red. The craft is leaving the
> Solar system at about 12 km/s but the Earth's speed in orbit
> is around 30 km/s so when we are moving towards it the shift
> is blue (for about 19 weeks, up to 18 km/s) and when Earth is
> moving the other way it is red (up to 42 km/s).
>
> George

Thanks George, i've got it. So, when observed, when earth is at right
angles moving with respect to the movement of pioneer one observes a
red-shift. But not as much as could be expected from the formulas of a
hyperbolic orbit.
But observing it at right angles, this opportunity comes twice a year
and there's a difference between these two, it is a length of ca. 14
lightminutes= 2 astronimical units in between and this is filled with
lots of radiation from the sun. This should show up in the observation
of shift, shouldn't it ?
Thanks
Hero

Hero.van.Jindelt@gmx.de
#51
Oct12-06, 05:11 AM
P: n/a

Dishman wrote:
> Hero.van.Jindelt@gmx.de wrote:
> > George Dishman wrote:
> > > ... the anomaly is a blue shift. This was also confirmed by Craig
> > > Markwardt who re-analysed the data from scratch and found the
> > > same result, the frequency is higher than expected.

>
> > Blue shift- that means Pioneer is coming back ?

>
> The anomaly is a blue shift. It suggests the craft is being
> slowed with constant acceleration. The cumulative loss of
> speed was around 100 mm/s over 8 years.
>
> Overall, the shift is mostly red. The craft is leaving the
> Solar system at about 12 km/s but the Earth's speed in orbit
> is around 30 km/s so when we are moving towards it the shift
> is blue (for about 19 weeks, up to 18 km/s) and when Earth is
> moving the other way it is red (up to 42 km/s).
>
> George

Thanks George, i've got it. So, when observed, when earth is at right
angles moving with respect to the movement of pioneer one observes a
red-shift. But not as much as could be expected from the formulas of a
hyperbolic orbit.
But observing it at right angles, this opportunity comes twice a year
and there's a difference between these two, it is a length of ca. 14
lightminutes= 2 astronimical units in between and this is filled with
lots of radiation from the sun. This should show up in the observation
of shift, shouldn't it ?
Thanks
Hero

Hero.van.Jindelt@gmx.de
#52
Oct12-06, 05:11 AM
P: n/a

Dishman wrote:
> Hero.van.Jindelt@gmx.de wrote:
> > George Dishman wrote:
> > > ... the anomaly is a blue shift. This was also confirmed by Craig
> > > Markwardt who re-analysed the data from scratch and found the
> > > same result, the frequency is higher than expected.

>
> > Blue shift- that means Pioneer is coming back ?

>
> The anomaly is a blue shift. It suggests the craft is being
> slowed with constant acceleration. The cumulative loss of
> speed was around 100 mm/s over 8 years.
>
> Overall, the shift is mostly red. The craft is leaving the
> Solar system at about 12 km/s but the Earth's speed in orbit
> is around 30 km/s so when we are moving towards it the shift
> is blue (for about 19 weeks, up to 18 km/s) and when Earth is
> moving the other way it is red (up to 42 km/s).
>
> George

Thanks George, i've got it. So, when observed, when earth is at right
angles moving with respect to the movement of pioneer one observes a
red-shift. But not as much as could be expected from the formulas of a
hyperbolic orbit.
But observing it at right angles, this opportunity comes twice a year
and there's a difference between these two, it is a length of ca. 14
lightminutes= 2 astronimical units in between and this is filled with
lots of radiation from the sun. This should show up in the observation
of shift, shouldn't it ?
Thanks
Hero

Hero.van.Jindelt@gmx.de
#53
Oct12-06, 05:11 AM
P: n/a

Dishman wrote:
> Hero.van.Jindelt@gmx.de wrote:
> > George Dishman wrote:
> > > ... the anomaly is a blue shift. This was also confirmed by Craig
> > > Markwardt who re-analysed the data from scratch and found the
> > > same result, the frequency is higher than expected.

>
> > Blue shift- that means Pioneer is coming back ?

>
> The anomaly is a blue shift. It suggests the craft is being
> slowed with constant acceleration. The cumulative loss of
> speed was around 100 mm/s over 8 years.
>
> Overall, the shift is mostly red. The craft is leaving the
> Solar system at about 12 km/s but the Earth's speed in orbit
> is around 30 km/s so when we are moving towards it the shift
> is blue (for about 19 weeks, up to 18 km/s) and when Earth is
> moving the other way it is red (up to 42 km/s).
>
> George

Thanks George, i've got it. So, when observed, when earth is at right
angles moving with respect to the movement of pioneer one observes a
red-shift. But not as much as could be expected from the formulas of a
hyperbolic orbit.
But observing it at right angles, this opportunity comes twice a year
and there's a difference between these two, it is a length of ca. 14
lightminutes= 2 astronimical units in between and this is filled with
lots of radiation from the sun. This should show up in the observation
of shift, shouldn't it ?
Thanks
Hero

Hero.van.Jindelt@gmx.de
#54
Oct12-06, 05:11 AM
P: n/a

Dishman wrote:
> Hero.van.Jindelt@gmx.de wrote:
> > George Dishman wrote:
> > > ... the anomaly is a blue shift. This was also confirmed by Craig
> > > Markwardt who re-analysed the data from scratch and found the
> > > same result, the frequency is higher than expected.

>
> > Blue shift- that means Pioneer is coming back ?

>
> The anomaly is a blue shift. It suggests the craft is being
> slowed with constant acceleration. The cumulative loss of
> speed was around 100 mm/s over 8 years.
>
> Overall, the shift is mostly red. The craft is leaving the
> Solar system at about 12 km/s but the Earth's speed in orbit
> is around 30 km/s so when we are moving towards it the shift
> is blue (for about 19 weeks, up to 18 km/s) and when Earth is
> moving the other way it is red (up to 42 km/s).
>
> George

Thanks George, i've got it. So, when observed, when earth is at right
angles moving with respect to the movement of pioneer one observes a
red-shift. But not as much as could be expected from the formulas of a
hyperbolic orbit.
But observing it at right angles, this opportunity comes twice a year
and there's a difference between these two, it is a length of ca. 14
lightminutes= 2 astronimical units in between and this is filled with
lots of radiation from the sun. This should show up in the observation
of shift, shouldn't it ?
Thanks
Hero


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