#1
Apr2303, 06:13 PM

P: n/a

I've become interested in learning about Group Theory. I don't know too much but I see it spring up all over the place and would just like to know what it is about and some of the basics. Could some one please point me in the direction of a good resource that wouldn't be too far over my head? Thanks.



#2
Apr2303, 06:16 PM

P: n/a

Oops, I thought you said 'group therapy for dummies'. I guess I can't help after all. [:D]



#3
Apr2303, 06:25 PM

P: n/a





#4
Apr2403, 02:04 AM

P: 56

[SOLVED] Group Theory For DummiesM. A. Armstrong. Groups and symmetry. Springer Verlag 1988. J. Rotman. An introduction to the theory of groups, Sprnger Verlag 1995. J. D. Dixon, Problems in Group Theory. New York: Dover, 1973. R. Mirman. Group Theory: An Intuitive Approach. World Scientific, 1995. 


#5
Apr2403, 08:16 AM

P: n/a

Hmm, I used Dummit&Foote "Abstract Algebra" as an introductory textbook, and found it to be excellent. Though the emphasis is on mathematics rather than the physics applications (Lie groups, representations, etc). The nice thing about pure group theory is it requires basically zero prerequisites.




#6
Apr2403, 05:54 PM

Emeritus
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PF Gold
P: 10,424

I'll also recommend the Schaum's Outline of Group Theory. It doesn't specifically cover some of the more physically interesting topics such as groups of 3x3 matrices, but it gives you all of the tools necessary to understand just about any grouptheoretical system.
 Warren 



#7
Apr2403, 05:58 PM

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PF Gold
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#8
Apr2403, 09:30 PM

P: n/a

Thanks for the replies, does anyone know of a good online (read free) source? I'm kind of interested in group theory to see how it relates to QM and what not, but also just for pure math. Would the Schaubs outlines work well for both if there is no good free source available?




#9
Apr2503, 04:22 AM

P: 56

Here a book that has been a quite interest source for many physicists/
http://www.cns.gatech.edu/GroupTheory/index.html 



#10
Apr2603, 04:57 PM

Emeritus
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PF Gold
P: 5,540





#11
Jun403, 10:54 AM

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PF Gold
P: 22,801

I mean a collective teacheachother tutorialno one person doing all the teaching but trading around. I see Tom and Rutwig and Chroot have posted online resources and also hardcopy books to buy. The big question isis there enough interest? A secondary question iscould we stand to type all the subscripts, superscripts, matrices, and greek letters? PF is a great medium for nonhierarchical learning. But the sheer typing of symbols and inability to draw pictures imposes some limits on what one can handle here. So I am skeptical that a group theory tutorial or workshop would get anywhere. But just to see how it might gohere is my proposal Focus on the simplest most classical groups central to basic physicsdimensions 2, 3, 4. Focus on things like SO(3) the special orthogonal group. ["special" just means det = 1 in this case, think of rotations] And SU(2) the special unitary groupbecause of its relation to SO(3) and the pauli spinmatrices. among other things. And SL(2,C) because of its relation to the Lorentz group. It seems to me that the goal should be not to snow anybody or discourage anybodynot to show off or try to pull rank on people (as nonPF people sometimes do when discussing math)but simply to go over the group theory that is most basic and do it in an entrylevel way. This might not be possibleit might simply not work. Also it might be tiresome to try to type in matriceseven like the three pauli spinmatrices which are about as simple as 2x2 matrices can get would be sort of tedious to type into PFstyle posts. Anyway I am broaching the idea. Reactions? Better ideas of how to do it? 



#12
Jun503, 07:05 AM

P: 333

I like the sound of your idea, Marcus. I'd be interested once my exams are done. I like especially the sound of learning its applications to Physics. We get taught Group Theory, but only in the sense of pure maths.




#13
Jun503, 02:46 PM

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PF Gold
P: 22,801

Lonewolf, this thread may possibly remain dormant until you are thru exams. Depends on how interested the others are. When you or anybody returns I will probably get a notice by email. but to be sure, send me a PM. 



#14
Jun703, 01:02 PM

P: 56

The book by Cvitanovic is one of the links. There are many others, but it should be specified whether one is interested on discrete, continuous (non differentiable) or Lie groups, or even generalizations like KacMoody groups, supergroups, etc. Each of the topics is a world in itself.




#15
Jun703, 02:14 PM

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PF Gold
P: 22,801

a recent result of Olaf Dreyer seems to force a change in the group from SU(2) to SO(3) Lubos Motl has what seems to be a clearsighted outsiders perspective on this (not being especially an advocate of LQG) Have you any comment on thisperhaps the change seems insignificant given that one is a 2fold cover of the otheror does it have some interesting ramifications? I will edit this to add a link to Lubos Motl's paper, though I would not be surprised if you had already noticed it. http://www.arxiv.org/abs/grqc/0212096 



#16
Jun903, 12:59 AM

P: 307

A good place for online textbooks is
http://www.math.gatech.edu/~cain/tex...linebooks.html I printed out "Abstract Algebra, the basic graduate year" by Prof. Robert Ash, and it looks pretty good so far. A workshop would be pretty nice, since I had already planned to study some algebra this summer anyway. I got an introduction this semester, and although most of my fellow physics students hated the abstactness of it all, it grew on me. Seems like a fun game to play. 



#17
Jun1003, 02:53 AM

P: 56





#18
Jun1003, 11:44 AM

Astronomy
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PF Gold
P: 22,801

have been preoccupied with an LQG thread in "theoretical" forum. The thread is about SO(3) and its Lie algebra so(3). Good stuff to know. Marsden's introductory treatment is good. Look at Marsden's Chapter 9 "An introduction to Lie groups" if you want. for some people who have just posted here, they are waaaay beyond that entrylevel introduction by Marsden. But if you and I want to start talking it has to be somewhere and the beginning is apt to be a good place. Besides, Jerry Marsden is a CalTech professor and his approach connects up to the physicsneeds of CalTech students. It doesnt look at all "pure" to me, so you might like it. Do you find anything in Chapter 9 interesting or whatever? I will go fetch the link and edit it in here. Really nice of Marsden to put it online. http://www.cds.caltech.edu/~marsden/bib_src/ms/Book/ 


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