Proving t(n) Divisible by 3 Implies n is Divisible by 3

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that if the sum of the digits of a number \( n \) (denoted as \( t(n) \)) is divisible by 3, then \( n \) itself is also divisible by 3. Participants explore various methods of proof, including induction and modular arithmetic, while considering the implications of different approaches.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using induction to show that \( n - t(n) = 3x \) is true, questioning whether to use \( n + 3 \) in the induction process.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of considering number expansion and modulo arithmetic when dealing with digit sums.
  • A participant expresses reluctance to use modulo arithmetic for the proof, indicating a preference for induction.
  • One reply argues that induction can be applied with any successor values, not just \( n \) and \( n + 1 \), and mentions the strong principle of induction.
  • A participant acknowledges learning about the strong principle of induction but expresses confusion about its necessity compared to standard induction.
  • Another participant provides a modular arithmetic insight, suggesting that \( 10^n x_n \equiv x_n \mod 3 \) could be relevant.
  • For the inductive proof, a participant outlines a strategy that involves showing \( n \) is divisible by 3 if \( n - 3 \) is divisible by 3, mentioning the need for base cases and the challenge posed by certain digit endings.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best method to prove the statement. There are competing views on the use of induction versus modular arithmetic, and uncertainty remains about the application of the strong principle of induction.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express limitations in their understanding of modular arithmetic and the strong principle of induction, indicating that their discussions may depend on these unresolved concepts.

Ed Quanta
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That iff the sum of the digits of n is divisible by 3, then n is divisible by 3.

Defining t(n) to be the sum of the digits of n, can I just use induction show n-t(n)=3x is true. Since we know if this statement is true, then it can't be true for n+1, do I use n+3 as what I am trying to show holds true by induction?
 
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Whenever you have a question asking you about digits in the number, you've got to think that it might have something to do with expansion.

So, if the number looks like [tex]x_nx_{n-1}\ldots x_0[/tex] it stands for

[tex]10^nx_n+10^{n-1}x_{n-1}+\ldots +x_0[/tex]

What do you know about modulo arithmetic?
 
I can't use modulo arithmetic to solve this.
 
Why on Earth not? (that's sort of rhetorical)

If you must use induction, then you can.Induction, despite being taught in terms of n and n +1, only requires the idea of successors, they could be labelled obviously by n and n+1, but there's no reason why they can't be 0,3,6,...,n+3,n+6...

You should probably find out about the strong principle of induction, too.
 
Yeah, I learned the strong principle of induction but I still don't really see why it works or rather when it is necessary opposed to showing n implies n+1. Yeah, I know there is a way not involving induction which is probably prettier. Out of curiosity though, how would you use modular arithmetic to do this. You don't have to write it out, just throw a couple of ideas. We learned modular arithmetic after this problem was assigned which is why I don't want to use that in my proof.
 
This might help:

[tex]10^nx_n \equiv x_n\textrm{ mod }3[/tex]

cookiemonster
 
For the inductive proof: suppose we want to show n is divisible by 3, well, that is true iff n-3 is divisible by three. The result follows by induction (you'll need base cases for n=0,1,2 to be sure) if you can show that if the result holds for n-3, then it holds for n.This is easy if n-3 ends in 0,1..6, for then the sum of the digits in n is the sum of the digits of n-3 plus 3, and then the sum of n's digits is divisible by 3 iff n is follows by induction. If n-3 ends in 7,8, or 9 you'll have to think a little harder.
 

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