MSNBC poll on impeachment disturbing


by edward
Tags: disturbing, impeachment, msnbc, poll
Astronuc
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Apr28-07, 06:01 PM
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Quote Quote by denverdoc View Post
Clever bastards aren't they?
Devious perhaps, or maybe deviant?
Ivan Seeking
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Apr28-07, 07:01 PM
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Quote Quote by denverdoc View Post
Clever bastards aren't they?
Really, I don't think they're very clever at all; more like used car salemen or two-bit con men if you ask me. I think too many people simply aren't paying attention - too much watching S Park instead of the News Hour, listening to the likes of Rush instead of NPR, or watching Fox and believing every word from that some guy yelling at them because he slams the liberals in every other sentence. Most people don't want real news. It's too depressing and they feel powerless.
edward
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Apr28-07, 11:41 PM
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If anyone needs a few minutes, well 33 minutes to be exact, of informative comic relief here is a link to the entire Bill Moyers John Stewart interview.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...+stewart&hl=en
Astronuc
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Apr29-07, 06:22 AM
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Quote Quote by edward View Post
If anyone needs a few minutes, well 33 minutes to be exact, of informative comic relief here is a link to the entire Bill Moyers John Stewart interview.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...+stewart&hl=en
Thanks, edward! That's great!

"Are you ready to bumble?" I agree with Moyers insight. Tens of thousands of words written by journalists and others on the Gonzo testimony, and Stewart distills it in a few words.

Stewart really has the Bush administration pegged. I appreciate his comment about the disconnect between what Bush says and what he does. Bush stated that the US is in 'the fight for its way of life', a monumental battle, yet he sends 10,000 troops to Baghdad out of 30,000 troops in the 'surge', as if that will do it. And Stewart is right about the administration keeping the nation fearful enough to get away with their current mismanagement of the war, but not so fearful that people stop from their everyday routine and start paying attention to what's really going on.

Moyers and Stewart should both get a Medal of Freedom, but that is not likely from the current regime.
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Apr29-07, 06:57 AM
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Quote Quote by Astronuc View Post
Stewart really has the Bush administration pegged. I appreciate his comment about the disconnect between what Bush says and what he does. Bush stated that the US is in 'the fight for its way of life', a monumental battle, yet he sends 10,000 troops to Baghdad out of 30,000 troops in the 'surge', as if that will do it. And Stewart is right about the administration keeping the nation fearful enough to get away with their current mismanagement of the war, but not so fearful that people stop from their everyday routine and start paying attention to what's really going on.

Moyers and Stewart should both get a Medal of Freedom, but that is not likely from the current regime.
I agree. That's a wonderful interview. It's very interesting to listen to his views on the current Bush administration. I think he's spot on with his observation on the method by which the administration (mal)functions.
denverdoc
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Apr29-07, 07:29 AM
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Quote Quote by Ivan Seeking View Post
Really, I don't think they're very clever at all; more like used car salemen or two-bit con men if you ask me. I think too many people simply aren't paying attention - too much watching S Park instead of the News Hour, listening to the likes of Rush instead of NPR, or watching Fox and believing every word from that some guy yelling at them because he slams the liberals in every other sentence. Most people don't want real news. It's too depressing and they feel powerless.
I guess I meant clever(devious/deviant) enough to get the drumbeats for war going at a staccato pace, thinking this would all be over long before now, and they would appear to be great champions for freedom, meanwhile having snagged some sweet oil deals, pad their pockets, etc.

Dumb enough to ignore both sound military advice and the abundant lessons of history.
Ivan Seeking
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Apr29-07, 08:24 AM
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Sure, the fact is though, they took advantage of a vulnerable public during a time when it counted the most. What is not 100% clear to me is whether this was driven primarily by greed, arrogance, delusions of grandeur, or irrational, faith based decisions.
Astronuc
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Apr29-07, 08:39 AM
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Quote Quote by Ivan Seeking View Post
Sure, the fact is though, they took advantage of a vulnerable public during a time when it counted the most. What is not 100% clear to me is whether this was driven primarily by greed, arrogance, delusions of grandeur, or irrational, faith based decisions.
Try all of the above - greed, arrogance, delusions of grandeur, AND irrational, faith based decisions. All are elements of the Bush administration. Those and a certain amount of depraved indifference.
edward
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Apr29-07, 01:29 PM
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Quote Quote by Astronuc View Post
Moyers and Stewart should both get a Medal of Freedom, but that is not likely from the current regime.
I will go along with that. It was great to see Moyers back on PBS. I have always believed that he had been pressured to leave in 04 because of his stance against the war and especially after he made the no holds barred statement presented below.

Vice President Cheney, Bill Moyers argued on his PBS show on Friday night, is the “poster boy” for the “military-industrial complex” made up of those who “call for war with all the ferocity of non-combatants and then turn around and feed on the corpse of war.”
http://www.mediaresearch.org/cyberal...20030421.asp#1
turbo
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Apr29-07, 02:06 PM
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Moyers has it right. War brings instability and if you are in control during a period of instability, you can make a LOT of money. The people beating the drum for war almost always stand to profit from it. They wave the flag, point to threats, real or imagined, call for patriotism and solidarity, threaten dissidents, and hope they can fool enough of the public (easily done) to get popular support for slaughter.
Mentz114
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May2-07, 06:39 PM
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Silver Fox writes ( my emphasis )-
First as several of you point out you think that the Bush administration is full of a bunch of blundering lying dolts that can't figure out the difference between their heads and a hole in the ground. For any administration to pull off the kind of deceit and forgery that is being suggested you would need some very sharp, savvy, and cunning people.
You mean Cheney, Wolfowitz, and their cohorts ? The puppeteers.

As for criminality, one of the charges at the Nuremburg tribunal was 'waging aggressive war' which is still considered a crime against humanity.
turbo
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May2-07, 06:56 PM
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Quote Quote by Mentz114 View Post
You mean Cheney, Wolfowitz, and their cohorts ? The puppeteers.
I have a depressing persistent image of Bush as Mortimer Snerd with the ventriloquist (Cheney) talking out the side of his mouth so the audience thinks the dummy is talking. Those of you who are under 50 may have to Google on Mortimer Snerd.
Mentz114
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May2-07, 07:19 PM
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We have a cartoonist here (UK) who depicts our prime minister as a poodle of a certain simian who rules the USA. But it's hard to laugh while the damage goes on. I've just read through this entire topic and I have a sense of community with those who uphold freedoms, see injustice and deplore ( as Astronuc puts it ) depraved indifference.
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May11-07, 02:14 PM
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Quote Quote by Astronuc View Post
'pundits' rather than "experts".

I believe Moyers's program made the point that the 'experts' who made that case that 'aluminum tubes' were for high speed centrifuges were in fact 'unqualified' to make such an assessment. Typical for the Bush administration.
As Senator Dick Durbin has recently revealed, now that the information has been declassified:

"The information we had in the intelligence committee was not the same information being given to the American people. I couldn't believe it," Majority Whip Richard J. Durbin, Illinois Democrat, said Wednesday when talking on the Senate floor about the run-up to the Iraq war in 2002.
He cited the White House's claim that Iraq was trying to acquire aluminum tubes needed for a nuclear weapons program -- details of which have since been declassified -- as an example of bad intelligence, saying that there was an ongoing debate within the administration as it was being used in public.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...4842-1706r.htm
The Aluminum tubes in particular had been ruled out as usable for centrifuges by the DOE. I would guess that the "nucular" scientists there would be qualified to make such an assessment.
edward
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May11-07, 03:16 PM
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One would think that a conspiracy to defraud the Congress and the American people would be illegal.
turbo
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May11-07, 03:29 PM
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Quote Quote by edward View Post
One would think that a conspiracy to defraud the Congress and the American people would be illegal.
One would think that such a conspiracy would rise to the level of war crimes under international law, too. The US media will not tackle this for fear of appearing "liberal". McCarthy's mistake was in demonizing individuals. Rove's improvement lies in demonizing ideas and politicizing otherwise "neutral" sectors of our government to enforce the administration's views.
Skyhunter
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May11-07, 03:56 PM
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As Bill Clinton recently said, it is not a conspiracy, they are doing it right in front of us.
Ivan Seeking
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May11-07, 04:26 PM
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Did you see that one of Powell's former top aides called for Bush and Cheney to be impeached for high crimes?

...Lawrence Wilkerson, who was chief of staff to then-Secretary of State Colin Powell, said on the public radio program On Point Thursday that "Bill Clinton's peccadilloes ... pale in significance" when compared to the "high crimes and misdemeanors" of Bush and Cheney. [continued]
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Former...eney_0510.html

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