Can generators create electrons?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether generators can create electrons. Participants explore the nature of electrons in electrical circuits, the functioning of generators, and the principles behind battery charging and discharging. The conversation touches on theoretical and conceptual aspects of electricity and electron movement.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that generators do not create electrons but rather move existing electrons within conductors.
  • Others argue that the concept of a generator implies the creation of a potential difference that facilitates electron flow.
  • One participant suggests that the electrons in a generator's output must come from somewhere, questioning their origin.
  • Several contributions clarify that electrons are not consumed in a circuit; they remain in the circuit while energy is transferred.
  • There is a discussion about the role of redox reactions in batteries, with some asserting that these reactions do not create or destroy electrons.
  • One participant expresses confusion about the relationship between charging batteries and the movement of electrons, suggesting a misunderstanding of how electric circuits function.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on whether generators can be said to create electrons. While some assert that electrons are merely moved, others question the implications of this movement and its relation to the concept of generation.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of "create" and "generate" in the context of electricity, as well as the implications of electron movement in circuits and batteries.

Mr. Robin Parsons
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Originally posted by suyver
I also have never heard of it. I'd be most interested in hearing more from LURCH's argument.
An electric generator can make electrons, no one has found a manner to make a proton, not to the best of my knowledge, break? Yup! make? Nope! Electrons can be made, or "brought into being", there stability is nowheres near that of a protons, or a nucleated neutron...so's I would suspect different species of a similar kinda animal life...so to speak...
 
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No, MRP, generators do not make electrons.

- Warren
 
Originally posted by chroot
No, MRP, generators do not make electrons.

- Warren
OK where/what is the answer then...?
 
Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
OK where/what is the answer then...?
The answer to what?

- Warren
 
Originally posted by chroot
The answer to what?

- Warren
YIKES! where the electrons come from? ...! when a generator generates electricity and it is "bled off" the other end, into things like light bulbs...
 
Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
YIKES! where the electrons come from? ...! when a generator generates electricity and it is "bled off" the other end, into things like light bulbs...

I am not quite sure by what you mean by a generator. But typically, in metals used for wires, which carry current, the eletrons are free to move about (or the holes created by them leaving depending on the material). They move, bump into each other, and transfer energy down the wire. I know this is a very simplistic picture. But the basic idea here is that electrons are not "created." They simply flow because they are free in metals. This may not be the case in other materials (dielectrics), which are not good conductors of electricity.
Hope this clears things up.
Cheers,
Norm
 
So this means 'potentials' as in when you connect a generator to a battery and refill the outer valence shell electrons Holes? (that the 'atoms' then store, as electrons)

Isn't that the meaning of the word "generator", 'cause to occur' 'bring into being', cause, followed by effect Hummm seems to be able to output electrons, into batteries...(?)
 
Zillions of electrons already exist in the metal as essentially a free electron gas. The electrons are not bound to one specific atom, and can move about easily.

The generator simply produces a potential difference between its two leads, which then encourages electrons to flow around the conductor.

No electrons are created by a generator; they are only moved about.

- Warren
 
Hummm I can fill enough batteries to show that the electron(s) had to be formed, somewheres, inasmuch as there are NOT accountable from anywheres in the immediate vicinty (or otherwise) of the Source/generator...so, where did they come from?
 
  • #10
Where did they come from? The big bang, according to current scientific dogma. Or perhaps your God made them, or perhaps they just always existed. In any case, an electric generator generates an electric FIELD -- the electrons which move due to that field already exist in the conductor.

- Warren
 
  • #11
Originally posted by chroot
Where did they come from? The big bang, according to current scientific dogma. Or perhaps your God made them, or perhaps they just always existed. In any case, an electric generator generates an electric FIELD -- the electrons which move due to that field already exist in the conductor.

- Warren
Then a small generator, filling lots of batteries, (With valence shell electrons) would cause the wire to disappear, in short time, and, BTW, that don't happen! Try again...
 
  • #12
So I suspect the question ElliePhysicsStudent asked has been answered, right? following that was the other particle(s) stabilities, neutrons only remain stable in an atom, remove them and the decay quite quickly, they are also thought of (by/in current theory) as 'constructed' in Fusion reactions, so the candidate for a model of either, stability, or solidity, (hard to break, lots of energy needed) would be the Proton...given 25 years a generation, human lifetimes, from the beginning of recorded history (roughly ~7000 years) works out to 280 generations of humans, compared to something that seems to have properties that extend it's believed stability ranging into the 10^30 + years, from a human viewpoint, I would respectfully suggest we can call it "stable"...cause, apparently, it's stability is beyond even the collective effort of all of what had/has been our ancestors, from the beginning of recorded histroy, had they been able to measure it, to measure...
 
  • #13
Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
Then a small generator, filling lots of batteries, (With valence shell electrons) would cause the wire to disappear, in short time, and, BTW, that don't happen! Try again...
The battery also contains the same number of electrons when charged and uncharged -- they're just in different places.

I suggest you do a little reading to clear up some of the misconceptions you have.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/battery.htm

- Warren
 
  • #14
Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
Isn't that the meaning of the word "generator", 'cause to occur' 'bring into being', cause, followed by effect Hummm seems to be able to output electrons, into batteries...(?)
Generator generates electricity. Does not generate electrons. It would be like saying that a roller coaster ride generates cars. Electricity travels in a circuit; The electrons go round and round. The power source takes incoming tired electrons, gives them more energy and sends them on their way. In the load part of the circuits, electrons give up their energy.
 
  • #15
When you charged a capacitor by connecting it to a battery, did you create a potential difference between the plates of the capacitor? Yes. Did you "create" electrons or add to electrons to the capacitor? No. All the battery did was to move the electrons to one plate of the capacitor, so that one plate is charged positively and the other is charged negatively.
 
  • #16
So oxidation and/or reduction is NOT the principals of how batteries work then, is it?

EDIT I'll be back, just that, the time...no time to read...
 
  • #17
Redox reactions move electrons around, MRP. They don't create or destroy them.

- Warren
 
  • #18
Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
Then a small generator, filling lots of batteries, (With valence shell electrons) would cause the wire to disappear, in short time, and, BTW, that don't happen! Try again...
You're under the erroneous belief that electrons are consumed by an electric circuit. They are not. That would be an e=mc^2 type of event. When an electron goes through a light bulb for example, energy is removed from it in the form of the electromotive force pushing it through the wire. Thats it. It still exists and it still moves through the wire, it just carries less energy than it did before (potential times charge).

Batteries work by separating electrons from atoms and making ions. Have a look at http://www.nlectc.org/txtfiles/batteryguide/ba-fund.htm
The metal in the anode (the negative terminal) oxidizes (i.e., it "rusts"), releasing negatively charged electrons and positively charged metal ions. The electrons travel through the wire (and the electrical load) to the cathode (the positive terminal). The electrons combine with the material in the cathode. This combination process is called reduction, and it releases a negatively charged metal-oxide ion. [emphasis added]
An ion is an ion because it gave up an electron it used to have. Nothing is created or destroyed.
 
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  • #19
...Thats kinda funny cause when I recharge a lead acid battery the specific gravity of the solution changes according to the electric charge present, (or absent) presence of electrons, or absence, if I can generate (create) an absence, by using the current, then can recharge it with a generator, the electrons that vacated, to be used, must be replaced with something, from somewhere...right?

Aside from that, that citaton of russ's tells of electrons "travelling"...further to that is the need of solution to the particle/wave duality debate, in order to resolve whether they move, or just bump...not happening here, Not from me at least, and not cause it can't be done, other reasons...
 

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