Relative antiparallel photons generate Q. M.?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of an EPR experiment involving singlet states and the behavior of photons emitted in opposite directions. Participants explore concepts related to the apparent speed of photons in different reference frames, the relationship between quantum mechanics and relativity, and the potential connections to cosmological phenomena such as inflation and Higgs mechanisms.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the apparent speed of one photon in the reference frame of another, suggesting that in any inertial frame, the speed remains c, while others propose that it could be considered infinite or indefinite under certain conditions.
  • There is a discussion about the lack of a reference frame for photons, with some arguing that the concept of a photon at rest is nonsensical.
  • One participant introduces the idea that quantum correlations may relate to cosmological inflation through an asymmetry of a Higgs potential, suggesting a connection between these phenomena.
  • Another participant challenges the terminology used regarding Higgs asymmetry and its relation to the horizon problem, expressing skepticism about the claims made.
  • There are corrections regarding the terminology used, with one participant clarifying that they meant "indefinite" rather than "infinite" when discussing the speed of photons.
  • Some participants express confusion over the relationship between Higgs mechanisms and inflation, prompting requests for clarification and further explanation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach consensus on the implications of the EPR experiment or the relationship between quantum mechanics and cosmological phenomena. Multiple competing views remain regarding the nature of photon speed and the relevance of Higgs asymmetry.

Contextual Notes

Some claims rely on specific interpretations of quantum mechanics and cosmology that may not be universally accepted. The discussion includes unresolved questions about the definitions and implications of terms like "Higgs asymmetry" and the nature of reference frames for photons.

Loren Booda
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Take an EPR experiment's singlet state emitting two equivalent photons, each propagating at speed c in opposite directions from each other. What is the apparent speed for the one photon in the reference frame of the other?

That this situation (the microscopic analog to the horizon problem) is classically anomalous requires quantum symmetry-breaking of relativity (as the horizon problem involves the Higgs asymmetry), thus EPR photon spins correlate to Bell inequality violation.
 
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Originally posted by Loren Booda
Take an EPR experiment's singlet state emitting two equivalent photons, each propagating at speed c in opposite directions from each other. What is the apparent speed for the one photon in the reference frame of the other?

There's no inertial reference frame in which photon is at rest.
In every inertial reference frame (in vacuum) the speed is c.
So,you can reformulate the question and ask:>Assuming one finds a reference frame fixed to say left propagating photon anyway,what would be consequantly the "speed" of the right propagating one in such theoretical r. frame?<"
A:Infinite.

P.S. Big mystery of photon is it doesn't "sense" the passage of time.
It is forever young,doomed to endless motion in our observable universe ,if it doesn't couple to a matterial particle.This in effect results in infinite distance reach of EM force.
 
Originally posted by Loren Booda
I realize there is more in the world than the things I have heard of, butTake an EPR experiment's singlet state emitting two equivalent photons, each propagating at speed c in opposite directions from each other. What is the apparent speed for the one photon in the reference frame of the other?

As TeV pointed out, there is no "photon's reference frame". The most you could do is send a photon in one direction and an observer at 0.999c in the other. Then, the speed of the photon wrt the observer is c (TeV: why would it be infinite?)

That this situation (the microscopic analog to the horizon problem)

What horizon problem?

is classically anomalous requires quantum symmetry-breaking of relativity

You seem to be making stuff up. What symmetry in relativity are you talking about? what do you mean by "quantum symmetry-breaking"?

(as the horizon problem involves the Higgs asymmetry)

AFAIK, there is no such thing as the "Higgs asymmetry". Are you referring to electroweak symmetry breaking?

The Higgs is the field that would be responsible for the spontaneous breaking of electroweak gauge symmetry, hence allowing mass terms for all particles, but it produces no "symmetry-breaking of relativity", and I have never heard of any "horizon problem" involving the Higgs field. It seems to me that you are merging together words in sentences that seem interesting, but that show a lack of understanding of how the concepts mentioned are interrelated.

, thus EPR photon spins correlate to Bell inequality violation.

I don't think this follows logically from any of what you wrote.

[Edit: took out the boldface]
 
ahrkron and Nommos Prime (Dogon),

What I hypothesize is that superluminal quantum correlations utilize the same underlying mechanism as cosmological inflation - asymmetry of a Higgs potential - allowing either process statistical agreement over FTL intervals.

Justifying the observed homogeniety between opposite universal horizons' blackbody temperatures suggests a tremendous, early-on acceleration of expansion, at a rate many orders above the speed of light. This inflation, a la Guth, is attributed to the break from symmetry effected by a Higgs mechanism.

Likewise, I propose that wherever correlated (entangled) particles separate superluminally, that they maintain those statistics through a cosmological Higgs dynamic alone. (Their "stochastic speed" is some 1028 fold beyond that of light.) The probabilistic residue that violates the Bell inequality is therefore representative of the true vacuum vs the false vacuum of accustomed physics.
 
Originally posted by Loren Booda
What I hypothesize is that superluminal quantum correlations utilize the same underlying mechanism as cosmological inflation - asymmetry of a Higgs potential -

Let's go step by step.

Can you specify what you mean with "asymmetry of a Higgs potential"?
Then,
How is that related to inflation?
 


Originally posted by ahrkron
(TeV: why would it be infinite?)

Oops,sorry.That was my typo (English is not my native language).
I certainly meant INDEFINITE.
The cause and effect (causility wise) must be preserved in any multidimensional model of universe.However,both SR and GR suffers from the problems relating singularity in the case of the free photon "at rest".From the standpoint of photon there's no time,and one spatial dimension is missing as well.Not to mention cosmology problem of total energy resource in treating reference frame with these properties (not discused in SR at all).Hence,the speed is indefinite.
 
ahrkron
Can you specify what you mean with "asymmetry of a Higgs potential"?
I meant to say "unstable symmetry of a Higgs potential."



ahrkron
How is that related to inflation?

http://nedwww.ipac.caltech.edu/level5/Primack/Primack1_6_2.html

http://www.nikhef.nl/~henkjan/astro/node20.html

Please forgive my throwing forth these websites; they have the best description of the role between the Higgs and inflation that I could find.
 
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