Look who's back: Uri Geller

**Ivan Seeking** · Mar24-04, 02:05 AM

I remember Johnny Carson and James Randi debunking Geller on national television. For those who have never heard of Uri, this guy had a magic spoon bending routine that fooled many, many people. He claimed to bend spoons and keys with his mind. It is suggested that a little manipulation of the hardware - preparing the spoons by bending them repeatedly until just before they break - combined with the will to believe made Uri a star. Being a magician himself, the famous talk show host, Johnny Carson, called fellow magician and debunker, James Randi, and together they set poor Uri up. While on camera and at the last second, Carson handed Geller a regular set of spoons to use; instead of the ones that Geller had brought. Geller suddenly lost his powers.

http://www.uri-geller.com/

**Janitor** · Mar24-04, 02:22 AM

Yeah, I'm old enough to remember too. [g)]

Incidentally, is Randi still offering a million dollar prize to anyone who can demonstrate paranormal powers (if that's the right terminology) to his satisfaction, under laboratory conditions?

**FZ+** · Mar24-04, 11:02 AM

Yes. And still, no one has won, yet.

Then again, paranormal is pretty fuzzy as a word. Would a demonstration of quantum entanglement count?

**Ivan Seeking** · Mar24-04, 01:41 PM

I think it was the "Medium" Sylvia who has agreed to accept Randi's challenge if the one million dollars is put into a trust fund first; to be held by an impartial third party. It is claimed that Randi won't or can't fork up the bucks.

**FZ+** · Mar25-04, 08:47 AM

I think it was the "Medium" Sylvia who has agreed to accept Randi's challenge if the one million dollars is put into a trust fund first; to be held by an impartial third party. It is claimed that Randi won't or can't fork up the bucks.

All I know is that Randi's site has a Sylvia's clock entry, which is currently at 934 days.

More details:
http://www.randi.org/sylvia/index.shtml

**zoobyshoe** · Mar25-04, 09:15 AM

I went to his site (posted by Ivan) and it seems that he is branching out into all kinds of non-psychic endeavors, particularly art.

I looked at several of his drawings, paintings and his pottery plates, and, to my eyes, he looks like a really good artist. The more energetic stuff that is full of detail with all empty space filled, is on a par with Hundertwasser, if you happen to know that popular eccentric German artist.

I think, all this time, Uri has been completely wasting his time as an unsuccessful psychic, when hecould have been a completely successful eccentric artist.

**Ivan Seeking** · Mar26-04, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by FZ+

All I know is that Randi's site has a Sylvia's clock entry, which is currently at 934 days.

More details:
http://www.randi.org/sylvia/index.shtml

Interesting, last night on Coast to Coast AM, George Noory again made the public assertion that Randi refuses to put the money into an escrow account where Sylvia could actually get to it if she beat the challenge.

This is what bothers me about Randi's challenge...and I would think it should you as well. Good science does not mean one man as judge and jury. I don't think Randi would ever pay up under any circumstances. I suspect that he is just a mediocre magician who found a better way to make money. He has surely gotten more attention as a debunker than as a magician. During my limited correspondence with him, he seemed very angry and defensive as well.

**FZ+** · Mar27-04, 10:14 AM

Good science does not mean one man as judge and jury. I don't think Randi would ever pay up under any circumstances.

From the procedure I saw on his site, that does not appear accurate - the first stage is to decide on an experimental method that both agree on, and appoint an independent judge of the data.

**Ivan Seeking** · Mar27-04, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by FZ+

From the procedure I saw on his site, that does not appear accurate - the first stage is to decide on an experimental method that both agree on, and appoint an independent judge of the data.

I read his contract years ago and at the time it seemed very one sided...in fact I remember laughing at it. I will have to look again. In either case, if it is true that he won't put the money where it can be had, the challenge doesn't really mean much. Now, I am definitely no fan of Sylvia's or any other "medium' for that matter, but she seems to have a valid objection.

**enigma** · Mar27-04, 02:29 PM

If he's got a contract, signed and notarized, saying he'll pay if the terms are met, then what is her problem? If she does prove she's not full of it, wins the bet, and he doesn't pay up, that means:

1) Randi's reputation is instantly and for all time shot
2) Randi can be sued to get the money.

**Ivan Seeking** · Mar27-04, 03:29 PM

Either she wants to make sure that she gets the million dollars, or she is using this to back Randi into a corner - to show that he can't come up with the money; or she is using this as an excuse. However, if he can't produce the bucks it shows bad faith on his part. It would show that his challenge is a gimmick. I think the latter is what Sylvia wants to show.

2) Randi can be sued to get the money.
You can't get what's not there.

**Zero** · Mar27-04, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by Ivan Seeking

Either she wants to make sure that she gets the million dollars, or she is using this to back Randi into a corner - to show that he can't come up with the money; or she is using this as an excuse. However, if he can't produce the bucks it shows bad faith on his part. It would show that his challenge is a gimmick. I think the latter is what Sylvia wants to show.

2) Randi can be sued to get the money.
You can't get what's not there.

LOL, have you ever thought of being sceptical? According to Randi, the money is well over a million dollars, in an earning fund of some sort. If I'm not mistaken, they use some of the dividends to sponsor a scholarship program. I believe that at first Randi offered to put the money in escrow IF Browne would make up the lost earnings. I think he changed his mind, and offered Larry King the money to hold in safekeeping, and Browne still refuses. But, you should read the entire ongoing story on randi.org.

Browne is a liar, and a fraud, and it is absolutely that simple.

**Ivan Seeking** · Mar28-04, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Zero

LOL, have you ever thought of being sceptical? According to Randi, the money is well over a million dollars, in an earning fund of some sort. If I'm not mistaken, they use some of the dividends to sponsor a scholarship program. I believe that at first Randi offered to put the money in escrow IF Browne would make up the lost earnings. I think he changed his mind, and offered Larry King the money to hold in safekeeping, and Browne still refuses. But, you should read the entire ongoing story on randi.org.

Browne is a liar, and a fraud, and it is absolutely that simple.

I am only repeating the public accusations made to over 10 million listerners...legally, a real problem for Sylvia if untrue. Maybe before this is over Randi will sue her...

I don't believe anything Randi says any more than Sylvia. I have seen him in action too many times. I think it is you who lacks skepticism. You and many other seem to believe anything Randi says simply because you like his point of view.

Where exactly is the proof of the money?
Why won't he put it into escrow? I would think the great Randi would be willing to take Sylvia's challenge just to shut up her up...after all, I thought this was Randi's challenge, not Randi's investments.

**Zero** · Mar28-04, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by Ivan Seeking

I am only repeating the public accusations made to over 10 million listerners...legally, a real problem for Sylvia if untrue. Maybe before this is over Randi will sue her...

I don't believe anything Randi says any more than Sylvia. I have seen him in action too many times. I think it is you who lacks skepticism. You and many other seem to believe anything Randi says simply because you like his point of view.

Where exactly is the proof of the money?
Why won't he put it into escrow? I would think the great Randi would be willing to take Sylvia's challenge just to shut up her up...after all, I thought this was Randi's challenge, not Randi's investments.

Again, since you missed it the first time, apparently Randi DID agree to put the money in escrow, but only on the condition that some agreement be made ahead of time...

If you had a million dollars drawing interest, would you pull it out and let it sit for a year or two while you and Sylvia Browne discuss a test? I sure as hell wouldn't, especially if I were counting on the interest to help pay the bills.

Anyhoo, doesn't matter what Randi is, Browne is absolutely a fraud, and a disgusting human being to boot.

**Ivan Seeking** · Mar29-04, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by Zero

Browne is absolutely a fraud, and a disgusting human being to boot.

When I get a little time I will review Randi's program and contract again and post the relative information. In the mean time, although I tend to agree about Sylvia, I don't trust Randi either. I think he is just the other side of the same coin.

I maintain that Randi will never put himself in a situation where he could actually lose the money. Recently, the PEAR institute is claiming statistical proof that participants, over something like fifteen years and many billions of trials, are able to influence [quasi]random physcial events with their minds. Perhaps we need a PEAR - Randi showdown.

**Ivan Seeking** · Mar29-04, 01:19 AM

btw, I listened to part of Gellers interview on Coast to Coast. I stand corrected: It wasn't that Geller prepared the spoons for his demo, and that the spoons were then switched at the last minute, it was all of the negative energy that Carson was directing at him that prevented Uri's magical powers from working. Silly me.