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Spring constant

by janice778
Tags: constant, spring
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janice778
#1
Jun3-07, 02:39 PM
P: 2
1. The problem statement, all variables and given/known data

A mass m hangs from a spring with stiffness constant k. The spring is cut in half and the same mass hung from it. WIll the new arrangement have a higher or a lower stiffness constant than the original spring?

2. Relevant equations

F= -kx

3. The attempt at a solution

I think that the spring will have the same spring stiffness. I dont feel that the spring constant is something that can be changed. If it was, then it shouldnt be called a constant.
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ice109
#2
Jun3-07, 02:48 PM
P: 1,705
Quote Quote by janice778 View Post
1. The problem statement, all variables and given/known data

A mass m hangs from a spring with stiffness constant k. The spring is cut in half and the same mass hung from it. WIll the new arrangement have a higher or a lower stiffness constant than the original spring?

2. Relevant equations

F= -kx

3. The attempt at a solution

I think that the spring will have the same spring stiffness. I dont feel that the spring constant is something that can be changed. If it was, then it shouldnt be called a constant.
as far as you're concerned yes it doesn't change. also as far as i'm concerned it doesn't because i'm a noob but i do know that it does actually change because i know that cutting suspension springs changes their frequency of oscillation which is directly proportional to the root of [tex]\frac{K}{m}[/tex] which means the K does change. i just don't know how
Stevedye56
#3
Jun3-07, 02:52 PM
P: 398
No, it is the spring constant. It does not change assuming it is the same spring. It will just half the amount of compression that the spring can take before you go past the limit.

On a side note, I think my arrow keys are disable in the forum and when I hit the apostrophe key I get a quick search link. Is anyone else having the same problem?

ice109
#4
Jun3-07, 04:50 PM
P: 1,705
Spring constant

Quote Quote by Stevedye56 View Post
No, it is the spring constant. It does not change assuming it is the same spring. It will just half the amount of compression that the spring can take before you go past the limit.

On a side note, I think my arrow keys are disable in the forum and when I hit the apostrophe key I get a quick search link. Is anyone else having the same problem?
yup you're right, the cutting of the springs affecting springs rate is because it messes up the local annealing in the spring
Stevedye56
#5
Jun3-07, 05:04 PM
P: 398
Quote Quote by ice109 View Post
yup you're right, the cutting of the springs affecting springs rate is because it messes up the local annealing in the spring
I don't really understand what you just said. I also don't understand what is meant by "rate".
ice109
#6
Jun3-07, 05:17 PM
P: 1,705
Quote Quote by Stevedye56 View Post
I don't really understand what you just said. I also don't understand what is meant by "rate".
free frequency of oscillation is what i meant by spring rate,

Quote Quote by wiki
Damage to springs, such as using oxy-acetylene to cut the end off a car suspension spring to lower a vehicle's ride height, can destroy the tempering in localised areas of the spring.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coil_spring

tempering i meant the tempering of the spring is affected
Stevedye56
#7
Jun3-07, 05:22 PM
P: 398
If it isn't a car spring I highly doubt that you would use a acetylene torch to cut it. Say a mechanical pencil spring
ice109
#8
Jun3-07, 05:24 PM
P: 1,705
Quote Quote by Stevedye56 View Post
If it isn't a car spring I highly doubt that you would use a acetylene torch to cut it. Say a mechanical pencil spring
you were right, i was wrong, i was confused about why the K of the spring is affected.
Stevedye56
#9
Jun3-07, 05:26 PM
P: 398
Quote Quote by ice109 View Post
you were right, i was wrong, i was confused about why the K of the spring is affected.
Whoah, I wasn't trying to be condescending, sorry if it came off like that.
ice109
#10
Jun3-07, 05:31 PM
P: 1,705
Quote Quote by Stevedye56 View Post
Whoah, I wasn't trying to be condescending, sorry if it came off like that.
i didn't think you came off as condescending
janice778
#11
Jun3-07, 07:34 PM
P: 2
thanks everyone for the help
Doc Al
#12
Jun3-07, 07:35 PM
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P: 41,316
Quote Quote by janice778 View Post
I think that the spring will have the same spring stiffness.
Think about the definition of spring constant. If a spring is cut in half, is it easier or harder to stretch it a given amount?

Another way to look at it: Hang a weight from the original spring and it stretches the spring a distance X. Now imagine that the spring is really two springs attached together (each one half the size). How much does that weight stretch each half-spring?

I dont feel that the spring constant is something that can be changed. If it was, then it shouldnt be called a constant.
It's a constant for a given spring--as long as you don't stretch it too far. In Hooke's law (F = -kx), F and x change as you stretch the spring, but k remains constant. If you modify the spring by cutting it, you create a new spring with a new spring constant.
ice109
#13
Jun3-07, 07:38 PM
P: 1,705
Quote Quote by Doc Al View Post
Think about the definition of spring constant. If a spring is cut in half, is it easier or harder to stretch it a given amount?

Another way to look at it: Hang a weight from the original spring and it stretches the spring a distance X. Now imagine that the spring is really two springs attached together (each one half the size). How much does that weight stretch each half-spring?


It's a constant for a given spring--as long as you don't stretch it too far. In Hooke's law (F = -kx), F and x change as you stretch the spring, but k remains constant. If you modify the spring by cutting it, you create a new spring with a new spring constant.
what is the definition of the spring constant? is it not F/x
Doc Al
#14
Jun3-07, 07:41 PM
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Quote Quote by ice109 View Post
what is the definition of the spring constant? is it not F/x
That's correct.


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