Bernoulli's Principle explaination

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Bernoulli's Principle, exploring its definition, applications, and implications in fluid dynamics, particularly in relation to airflow and its behavior in various conditions. Participants seek to clarify the principle's relevance to different scenarios, including wind turbines and high-speed airflow.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants describe Bernoulli's principle as relating pressure, velocity, and height in a fluid under specific conditions, including incompressibility and steady flow.
  • There is a discussion about whether low-speed air can be approximated as incompressible, with some arguing it is a valid approximation while others challenge this view, suggesting that high-speed airflow should not be treated as incompressible.
  • One participant explains that at high speeds, air compresses, referencing thermodynamic principles and the ideal gas law, and notes that for low Mach number flows, air density changes are minimal, allowing for incompressible modeling.
  • Several participants seek a "word equation" for Bernoulli's principle, with various formulations proposed, including interpretations relating pressure, kinetic energy, and potential energy.
  • One participant expresses concern that the technical explanations may be too advanced for younger audiences.
  • A later reply offers a simplified version of the principle, stating that as fluid velocity increases, pressure decreases, which receives agreement from another participant.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the treatment of low-speed air as incompressible, with some supporting this approximation and others contesting it. The discussion remains unresolved on this point, while there is some consensus on the simplified explanation of the principle.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various conditions under which Bernoulli's principle applies, including the importance of Mach number in determining whether airflow can be treated as incompressible. The discussion highlights the complexity of fluid dynamics without resolving the nuances of these conditions.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and educators in physics or engineering, particularly those interested in fluid dynamics and the applications of Bernoulli's principle in real-world scenarios.

rattis
Messages
41
Reaction score
0
Can someone explain this principle to me in as few words as possible (less than 500) whilst retaining quality?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Bernoulli's principle relates the pressure, velocity, and height between two points along a fluid under certain conditions (such as incompressible, steady flow, non-viscous). It is a statement of conservation of energy along the fluid.

Bernoulli's equation looks like this:

[tex]P_1 + \frac{1}{2} \rho v_1^2 + \rho g y_1 = P_2 + \frac{1}{2} \rho v_2^2 + \rho g y_2[/tex]

Want more? Google. :smile:
 
Last edited:
Is that the same for air flow? ie wind turbines?

I don't like google, i get too much useless information, spam, porn, untruths, bad attempts and general waffle.
 
Bernoulli applies to all incompressible fluids, which low speed air can be approximated as.
 
enigma said: Bernoulli applies to all incompressible fluids, which low speed air can be approximated as.

I don't think approximating low speed air as an incompressible fluid is a very good approximation. Don't you mean high speed?
 
No, at high speeds the air compresses.

It comes from thermodynamics and the ideal gas law

[tex]p=\rho*R*T[/tex]

If you restrict the space which air can take up (by putting a wing in its path, for instance), the temperature rises, the density increases, and the pressure rises. According to thermodynamic properties, how much each changes depends entirely on the Mach number.

For low Mach number flows (less than .3), the density changes less than 5%, so it can be safely modeled as incompressible. For high Mach numbers (modern aircraft or rocket nozzles), using Bernoulli will give you very wrong numbers. In those cases, the more complicated thermodynamic properties must be used. If you're interested, Introduction to Flight, by John D. Anderson is a very well written textbook which has a chapter or three on it.
 
rattis,
Enigma and Doc Al are absolutely steering you in the right direction. A good book on fluid mechanics would help, and google too(send us some porn links).
-Mike
 
Last edited by a moderator:
What is the word equation for this principle?
 
To amplify what enigma said, treating airflow above 220mph as compressible is the rule of thumb I learned.

And what is a "word equation"?
 
  • #10
Ummmmm a word equations is an equation in words, or is this principle to complex to write in words?! :confused:
 
  • #11
rattis said:
What is the word equation for this principle?
Read Doc Al's post, he gives the key information.

Examine the equation the first thing to note is that the 2 sides only differ by the subscripts, this means it is relating the same properties in different regions.

The first term is a P or pressure, since all the terms are added they must all have the units of pressure. The second term is the density times the square of the velocity, this looks suspiciously like a kinetic energy. Notice that Doc Al mention conservation of energy? So this expression corresponds to a pressure due to the motion of the fluid. The last expression is a similar to a potential energy, this is a pressure due to fluid depth.
 
  • #12
rattis said:
What is the word equation for this principle?

Absolute pressure plus kinetic energy per unit volume plus potential energy per unit volume has the same value at all points along a streamline.

or if you like:

Absolute pressure plus dynamic pressure plus potential energy per unit volume has the same value at all points along a streamline.

or in a level system(no gravitational potential energy):
The sum of absolute pressure plus dynamic pressure remains constant along a streamline.

I hope that this is what you were looking for.
-Mike
 
  • #13
thanks, although that maybe too advanced to tell to the 15/16 year olds that i am trying to find this out for.
 
  • #14
I found a better version in an encyclopedia.

"Bernoulli’s principle states that as the velocity of a moving fluid (liquid or gas) increases, the pressure within the fluid decreases."
 
  • #15
Alright... how about:

As the velocity of a flow increases, the pressure drops. The pressure will not go any higher than the pressure of a stagnant (zero velocity) flow.

EDIT: crosspost
 
  • #16
enigma said:
Alright... how about:

As the velocity of a flow increases, the pressure drops. The pressure will not go any higher than the pressure of a stagnant (zero velocity) flow.


Absolutely.
-Mike
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
23K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 43 ·
2
Replies
43
Views
8K
  • · Replies 35 ·
2
Replies
35
Views
5K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
6K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
4K
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
4K