Could someone give me an idea for a proof of this

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the integrability of a piecewise function defined on the interval [0,1]. The function takes the value 0 at points of the form 1/n for natural numbers n, and 1 elsewhere. Participants are exploring the implications of discontinuities and the convergence of upper and lower sums in the context of Riemann integrability.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are examining the nature of the function's discontinuities and questioning whether the set of points where the function is discontinuous is larger than the set of irrationals. There is also discussion about the convergence of upper and lower sums and the implications for integrability.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided guidance on the definitions and properties of upper and lower sums, while others are questioning the assumptions made regarding the convergence of these sums. There is an ongoing exploration of the countability of the set of discontinuities and its relevance to the proof of integrability.

Contextual Notes

Participants are discussing the implications of the function's behavior at specific points and the definitions of integrability. There is a focus on the need for clarity regarding the nature of the sums involved in the Riemann integral and the countability of the set of discontinuities.

stunner5000pt
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Let f ( x ) = {0, if x = 1/n for some natural number n
or 1, otherwise

Note: Natural number would refer to the set of positive integers Z+ that is 1,2,3,...

Prove that this function is integrable on [0,1] and it's integral is 1

Certainly there are an infinite number of dicontinuities and nearly all of the function lies in the domain of [0,1]. But is the set of Inverse Naturals (1/n) (positive integers) bigger than the set of irrationals?

Someone recommended using the Robustness of the Reimann Integral

Let g and f be two functions defined on [a,b], and suppose
that the set of numbers in [a,b] at which the functions do not
take the same value (at which they "differ") is finite.
 
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Can you prove it's integrable over [a, 1] for some positive a?
 
What definitions are you using? You should have no problem showing that the upper and lower sum converge.
 
how

Hurkyl said:
Can you prove it's integrable over [a, 1] for some positive a?

what do you mean? AS for the upper and lower sums - so then

U(f,P) = Sum i =1 to infinity 1 = infinity

and L (f,P) = 0

they don't seem to converge...?
 
stunner5000pt said:
what do you mean? AS for the upper and lower sums - so then

U(f,P) = Sum i =1 to infinity 1 = infinity

and L (f,P) = 0

they don't seem to converge...?

Oh, dear. I don't want to hurt your feelings but you are way, way off.
For one thing, your integral is from x= 0 to x= 1 so the sum is NOT from 1 to infinity. The sum in U(f,P) is over the intervals in the partion- for any finite partition, it is a finite sum. Also the summand is not 1:it is 1 times the length of the interval in the partition. U(f,P) is NOT infinity.

Also, L(f,P) is not 0. Since f(x) is 1 for all x except 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, etc. it clearly is equal to 1 for all x> 1/2: L(f,P) will be 1(1/2)+ something.

Oh, by the way:
"But is the set of Inverse Naturals (1/n) (positive integers) bigger than the set of irrationals?"

Not even close: there is an obvious one-to-one correspondence between the naturals and "inverse naturals" (n<-> 1/n) so the set {1/n} is countable.
 
so how can i prove taht the set of naturals is countable or finite, thus proving that the function has a finite number of discontinuities?

is there a theorem ??
 

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