Electric Field Propulsion for Starting a Gas Engine?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of using electric field propulsion, inspired by railgun principles, to start a gasoline engine. Participants explore the feasibility, potential advantages, and challenges of this approach, touching on aspects of engine mechanics and power consumption.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes using an electromagnetic coil wrapped around a cylinder to initiate piston movement, drawing inspiration from railgun technology.
  • Another participant questions whether this method would consume less power than a traditional alternator, suggesting it could extend battery life.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes the distinction between alternators and starters, arguing that the proposed method may not save power and raises concerns about ensuring the engine turns in the correct direction.
  • Concerns are raised regarding the material properties of aluminum pistons, with one participant asserting that aluminum is not sufficiently magnetic for the proposed application.
  • Another participant highlights practical challenges, such as the physical mounting of the starter and the need for sufficient power to turn the crankshaft, especially in engines with more cylinders.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the complexity of the proposed method compared to existing, simpler solutions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a range of opinions, with some supporting the exploration of electric field propulsion while others raise significant concerns about its practicality and efficiency. No consensus is reached on the viability of the proposed method.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations related to the physical constraints of engine design, the magnetic properties of materials, and the power requirements for starting an engine. These factors remain unresolved in the discussion.

iluvsr20s
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My mind was wandering the other day in class, just after our physics teacher showed us the railgun he and his class made a while back. Anyway, I was wonder if you could use this principle in starting a gasoline engine. If you wrapped the electromagnetic coil around a cylinder, and fired it like you fired the rail gun for a short burst just to get the piston moving to the top of the cylinder. As i was typing i realized that the one cylinder wouldn't always be at bdc when you shut the car off. There would really be nothing to gain, but maybe space and weight. Just chuckin out there for yah to think about.
 
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Wouldn't that also take less power than the alternator currently does? Hence making the battery last longer?
 
tandoorichicken said:
Wouldn't that also take less power than the alternator currently does? Hence making the battery last longer?

The alternator is not used as the starter. Some older cars used DC generators as starters, but now there is a distinct difference between the two.

I don't see how this would save power. Also, another problem--How do you ensure the engine turns in the correct direction using your EM starter? Simply pushing down on a piston would not ensure the engine turns in the correct direction. Another thing is engines don't start on the first 1/2 revolution.
 
Engines use aluminum pistons. Last I checked, aluminum is not a magnetic material. At least not enough to do what you are describing.
 
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This would present many problems. For one, how would you exactly mount this starter and where would it go? I don't think it could wrap around the cylinder necessarily. There wouldn't be room for it around a cylinder as for the size of the block and the nature of the engine block itself. Each cylinder is wrapped in a "water jacket" which uses water to cool the cylinder. Also, in addition to what faust9 said about the cylinder/crank position, there's also the issue of having enough power for the one cylinder to turn the crankshaft and all the other cylinders. The problem would be smaller in maybe a 3 or 4 cylinder engine because of the less inertia (less cylinders). If you tried it in an engine with more cylinders, it becomes a problem (such as a 6 or 8 cylinder).

You probably already have a solution to all these problems, and if so you've done your homework well :biggrin: . Just wanted to maybe point these out. Good luck with that.
 
Seems unnecessarily complex, the current method is simple, effective and cheap. Not clear that this method will be able to compete.
 

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